Edward Espe Brown is a Zen priest and the former head cook at Tassajara Mountain Zen Mountain Center who helped found Greens Restaurant in San Francisco. He is the author of No Recipe and the classic Tassajara Bread Book. With Sounds True, he is publishing The Most Important Point: Zen Teachings of Edward Espe Brown. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with Edward about the origin of his newest book: a quote from his teacher Suzuki Roshi, who said, “The most important point is to find out what the most important point is.” Edward describes his discipleship with Suzuki Roshi and why Zen practice can sometimes be like feeling your way through pitch darkness. Tami and Edward talk about the tradition of “taking the backward step” and moments of realization that transcend your expected practice. Finally, they talk about Edward’s path away from extremely low self-esteem and the role of difficult emotions in Zen contemplative practice. (77 minutes)
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Founded Sounds True in 1985 as a multimedia publishing house with a mission to disseminate spiritual wisdom. She hosts a popular weekly podcast called Insights at the Edge, where she has interviewed many of today's leading teachers. Tami lives with her wife, Julie M. Kramer, and their two spoodles, Rasberry and Bula, in Boulder, Colorado.
Edward Espe Brown is a Zen priest and the former head cook at Tassajara Mountain Zen Mountain Center who helped found Greens Restaurant in San Francisco. He is the author of No Recipe and the classic Tassajara Bread Book. With Sounds True, he is publishing The Most Important Point: Zen Teachings of Edward Espe Brown. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with Edward about the origin of his newest book: a quote from his teacher Suzuki Roshi, who said, “The most important point is to find out what the most important point is.” Edward describes his discipleship with Suzuki Roshi and why Zen practice can sometimes be like feeling your way through pitch darkness. Tami and Edward talk about the tradition of “taking the backward step” and moments of realization that transcend your expected practice. Finally, they talk about Edward’s path away from extremely low self-esteem and the role of difficult emotions in Zen contemplative practice. (77 minutes)
During
the twenty years I lived in a meditation center, I rushed through my morning
coffee. After all, if I didn’t drink it fast enough, I’d be late for
meditation. It was important to get to meditation on time; otherwise, one had
to endure the social stigma of being late (obviously lacking the proper
spiritual motivation), as well as the boredom and frustration of having to wait
outside the zendo to meditate until latecomers were admitted.
When I
moved out of the center, I had to learn to live in the world. I had been
institutionalized for nearly twenty years. Now I was out and about. What did it
mean? There was no formal meditation hall in my home. I could set my meditation
cushion in front of my home altar, or I could sit up in my bed and cover my
knees with the blankets. There were no rules.
Soon,
I stopped getting up at 3:30 am. Once I did awaken, I found that a hot shower,
which had not really fit with the previous circumstances, was quite
invigorating. Of course, getting more sleep also helped.
Then I
was ready for coffee—hot, freshly brewed, exquisitely delicious coffee. Not
coffee in a cold cup from an urn; not coffee made with lukewarm water out of a
thermos; not coffee with cold milk, 2 percent milk, or nonfat milk—but coffee with
heated half-and-half. Here was my opportunity to satisfy frustrated longings
from countless mornings in my past. I would not have just any old coffee, but
Peet’s Garuda blend—a mixture of Indonesian beans—brewed with recently boiled
water and served in a preheated cup.
Unfortunately,
by the time I finished the coffee, I had been sitting around so long that it
was time to get started on the day, but I hadn’t done any meditation. With this
heavenly beverage in hand, who needed to meditate?
The
solution was obvious: bring the ceremoniously prepared coffee in the preheated
cup to the meditation cushion. This would never have been allowed at the center
or in any formal meditation hall I have visited, but in my own home, it was a
no-brainer. Bring the coffee to the cushion—or was it the other way around?
I
light the candle and offer incense. “Homage to the Perfection of Wisdom, the
Lovely, the Holy,” I say. “May all beings be happy, healthy, and free from
suffering.” I sit down on the cushion and place the coffee just past my right
knee. I cross my legs and then put the cup right in front of my ankles. I sit
without moving so I don’t accidentally spill the coffee. I straighten my
posture and sip some coffee.
I feel
my weight settling onto the cushion, lengthen the back of my neck, and sip some
coffee. Taste, enjoy, soften, release. I bring my awareness to my breath moving
in, flowing out. If I lose track of my breath, I am reminded to take another sip
of coffee—robust, hearty, grounding. Come back to the coffee. Come back to the
breath.
A
distraction? A thought? Sip of coffee. Enjoy the coffee. Enjoy the breath.
Focus on the present moment. Remembering the words of a Vipassana teacher of
mine: “Wisdom in Buddhism is defined as the proper and efficacious use of
caffeine.”
I
stabilize my intention. “Now as I drink this cup of coffee, I vow with all
beings to awaken body, mind, and spirit to the true taste of the dharma. May
all beings attain complete awakening at this very moment. As I visualize the
whole world awakening, my mind expands into the vastness.
Friends, this is one of the teaching stories that is shared in my new book, The Most Important Point. This offering comes to you with my gratitude for the efforts of Danny S. Parker, who edited over 60 of my Zen talks for inclusion in this volume.
Lastly, I invite you to try the Tea and Ginger Muffins recipe that accompanies this story. Danny must have enjoyed them!
Edward Espe Brown is a Zen Buddhist priest and was the first head cook at Tassajara Zen Mountain Center.
Danny S. Parker is a longtime student of Brown’s and is an ordained Zen Buddhist priest.
Pick up a copy of Edward Espe Brown’s newest book, The Most Important Point, today!
Edward Espe Brown is a renowned chef and Zen teacher who is best known as the first head cook at the Tassajara Zen Mountain Center. In addition to writing several cookbooks including the classic Tassajara Bread Book, Edward founded Greens Restaurant in San Francisco. With Sounds True, he has published No Recipe: Cooking as Spiritual Practice. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with Edward about Zen teachings on what it means to have to feel our way through the dark—both in the kitchen and on the spiritual path. They talk about cooking as a form of offering and why working with food can be one of the most potent ways to express our hearts in wholeness. Edward shares what he learned in his turbulent first days as the head cook for a spiritual community, including insights from his first Zen teacher, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi. Finally, Edward and Tami discuss what it means to seek out our heart’s true desire, as well as how to embody that search in all that we do. (72 minutes)
There is a saying that goes “hurt people hurt people.” I believe this to be true. We have been conditioned, in environments of scarcity and violence, to react more with fear and self-protection than curiosity and connection. As a result, we live in a world that is deeply in need of more kindness, more ease, more connection, more sweetness. It’s time we offer more sweetness and ease to ourselves, to one another, to our planet.
Now, this does not mean being a Pollyanna or “sickly sweet.” It does not mean being addicted to sugar and finding other ways to hurt ourselves. It means moving through the world and offering sweetness to ourselves and others. It means setting good boundaries and protecting our community and the hive from those who would “rob” us of our sweetness, of the sustenance (love, connection, inclusion, belonging) that helps us endure.
But first, we have to allow ourselves to taste and feel the sweetness on our own. We have to practice being deeply grateful for what is sweet in our life, holding it with reverence, and freely sharing it with others.
We invite you to build your own relationship with, and deep worthiness of, sweetness. We invite you to find and taste the sweetness in your life. Times of abundance and sweetness are special, and we must remember to taste them fully and live into them. We must also remember to share them.
What sweetness do you have in your life? What sweetness can you share with others? What sweetness do you crave from others? How can you cultivate more sweetness in your life? What does that look, sound, and feel like? Where do you deny yourself sweetness? How can you give yourself permission to taste and share all of the sweetness that comes to you? How can you bring sweetness into the lives of others?
Honey Tasting Meditation
For this practice, you’ll need some (ideally) local honey. If possible, find out what you can about where it came from and what was in bloom at the time it was made. This will help deepen your relationship to the place you live. If you cannot find local honey, that is okay; you can still complete the meditation as instructed.
Find a quiet spot in a quiet moment and sit with your jar of honey. Before opening it, sit in a few moments of conscious breathing to quiet your mind.
Start with your sense of sight and smell. Hold the jar of honey up in front of you and observe its color and viscosity. Take note of how it looks in the light, in the dark.
Next, open the jar of honey and bring it to your nose. Inhale deeply. Notice the sensations, images, or thoughts that come to you as you breathe in the aromatherapy of the honey.
Now, reverently taste the honey. Take a small amount on a spoon and meditatively savor the flavors, sensations, feelings, and images that come to you. Chew the honey. Hold it on your tongue. Allow yourself to indulge in its many flavors. Do this again with another spoonful (or as many as you want) but take your time.
When you’re done, write down any messages or insights you received from the experience and the nurturing and healing power of the honey. Take this moment of sweetness with you into your day.
Excerpted from The Wisdom of the Hive: What Honeybees Can Teach Us about Collective Wellbeing.
Michelle Cassandra Johnson is an author, activist, spiritual teacher, racial equity consultant, and intuitive healer. She is the author of six books, including Skill in Action and Finding Refuge. Amy Burtaine is a leadership coach and racial equity trainer. With Robin DiAngelo, she is the coauthor of The Facilitator's Guide for White Affinity Groups. For more, visit https://www.michellecjohnson.com/wisdom-of-the-hive.
The prophets and mystics of the Judeo-Christian tradition each had their ways of bringing attention to the hypocrisies and injustices of their particular period in history. Here in the year 2025, as we navigate our own time of disruption and upheaval, how can we as individuals raise our voices and become the compassionate, conscious change agents our world so desperately needs? In this podcast, Tami Simon speaks with Franciscan friar and ecumenical teacher Richard Rohr about his new book, The Tears of Things, and what we can learn from the “sacred revolutionaries” who came before us.
Tune in to explore: the prophet’s mission and “making good trouble”; self-critical thinking (and how it’s unknown to most major institutions); sacred criticism and the revelation of the shadow; the paradigm of order, disorder, and reorder; outrage, cosmic sadness, and unlimited praise; using anger to cover up sadness; grief work and “getting to the hallelujah”; discovering the foundation of hope; contemplative thinking; conversion and transformation; opening to grace; letting go of control; why “what we don’t want to see is the problem”; waking up from our collective illusion (especially around power and control); living in a deceit-allowing culture; the word “evil”; an ever-present sense of goodness in the world; holding the tension of opposing truths; gratuitous goodness; realizing a joy that cannot be taken from you; the prophet Jeremiah and the Book of Lamentations; why the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty; acting from the highest levels of motivation; and more.
Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.
What is the soul? How do we stay in relationship with the eternal aspect of ourselves? Is it possible to honestly trust that “everything is in order” when all we see is chaos and confusion?
In this podcast, Tami Simon speaks with acclaimed author and evidence-based medium Suzanne Giesemann about her journey from being a commander in the U.S. Navy to one of today’s most sought-after guides on the path of spiritual awakening. In this eye-opening conversation, you’ll learn about: the two keys to communicating with the departed: belief and intention; the three Es: educate, experience, and engage; the Sip of the Divine practice; the observer perspective and the importance of one’s point of view; patterns of consciousness interacting across time and space; a meeting with Albert Einstein; past lives; preparing for “a good and free and blessed death”; Wolf’s story; passing through an “elevation”; shifting out of left-brain dominance; curiosity and playfulness; the emotional heart and the spiritual heart; vagus nerve breathing; why there is “purpose in every passing”; Earth as a school for the evolution of our souls; transcending the sense of incompleteness inherent in “the story of you”; and more.
Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.
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