Meaning-Making, Motherhood, and the Journey of Individuation

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June 2, 2021

Meaning-Making, Motherhood, and the Journey of Individuation

Lisa Marchiano June 2, 2021

Lisa Marchiano is a clinical social worker, a certified Jungian analyst, and a nationally certified psychoanalyst. She cohosts This Jungian Life, a podcast devoted to exploring current topics through the lens of depth psychology. With Sounds True, Lisa has written a new book titled Motherhood: Facing and Finding Yourself, which presents a collection of myths, fables, and fairy tales to evoke the spiritual arc of raising a child from infancy through adulthood. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon talks to Lisa about what drew her to Jungian psychology and how Jung’s teachings have helped guide her journey through motherhood and life. They also discuss: the Jungian notion of individuation, a perpetual process of self-discovery and psychological growth; bringing the “taboos” of motherhood into the light; the complicated relationship between motherhood and creativity; Jungian dream analysis; and why the suffering we experience as parents and as individuals grants us a special opportunity to “encounter soul.”

Lisa Marchiano, LCSW, is a Jungian analyst, author, and podcaster. Her writings have appeared in many publications. She is the cohost and creator of the popular depth psychology podcast This Jungian Life and is the author of Motherhood. Lisa is on the faculty of C.G. Jung Institute of Philadelphia, and she lectures and teaches widely. She lives and practices in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Author photo © Ashley Smith

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Meet Your Host: Tami Simon

Founded Sounds True in 1985 as a multimedia publishing house with a mission to disseminate spiritual wisdom. She hosts a popular weekly podcast called Insights at the Edge, where she has interviewed many of today's leading teachers. Tami lives with her wife, Julie M. Kramer, and their two spoodles, Rasberry and Bula, in Boulder, Colorado.

Photo © Jason Elias

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Women across every age and culture have struggled with the pain of repressing essential aspects of themselves. There may be no misery greater than when we bury our vital spark beneath a dense layer of niceness that society insists upon. With her book The Vital Spark, Lisa Marchiano, a Jungian analyst, author, and podcaster, offers readers a breakthrough guide filled with insights, practices, tales, and teachings to unleash your “sizzling spirit” and live life to the fullest. 

Get ready to reclaim your “outlaw energies” in this powerful podcast on: transformation through fierce feminine initiations; the protective quality of shrewdness and ruthlessness; breaking out of an “innocence complex”; allowing ourselves to know what we know; why “too much kindness defangs us”; discernment; the metaphor of the central fire within us; Carl Jung’s teaching on the unlived life and the “glowing coals under gray ashes”; the vehicle of story and fairy tales to convey wisdom; the tale of “Fitcher’s Bird”; squinting and symbolism; the unsentimental quality in nature; the story of Lilith; the role of greed and selfishness in the quest for wholeness; growing confidence; cultivating the qualities that help us stay connected with ourselves; and more.

Meaning-Making, Motherhood, and the Journey of Individ...

Lisa Marchiano is a clinical social worker, a certified Jungian analyst, and a nationally certified psychoanalyst. She cohosts This Jungian Life, a podcast devoted to exploring current topics through the lens of depth psychology. With Sounds True, Lisa has written a new book titled Motherhood: Facing and Finding Yourself, which presents a collection of myths, fables, and fairy tales to evoke the spiritual arc of raising a child from infancy through adulthood. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon talks to Lisa about what drew her to Jungian psychology and how Jung’s teachings have helped guide her journey through motherhood and life. They also discuss: the Jungian notion of individuation, a perpetual process of self-discovery and psychological growth; bringing the “taboos” of motherhood into the light; the complicated relationship between motherhood and creativity; Jungian dream analysis; and why the suffering we experience as parents and as individuals grants us a special opportunity to “encounter soul.”

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But that is not always a good thing. There is such a thing as too much research. 

I distinctly remember working with a client who had very high expectations around her child’s food. She was concerned with what ingredients were in the food, how it was prepared, how it was served—and anything less than “healthy” felt wrong to her. She was a self-proclaimed perfectionist who wanted the best for her child—she wasn’t going to “lower her standards” at the request of her partner or anyone else. 

As a result of her food concerns, she spent hours upon hours extensively researching topics related to food such as GMOs, toxins, ingredients, and safety. Through her research, she also read that stress could decrease her milk supply—so she shut down any conversations when her family tried to approach her about this or how it had taken over her life. 

This level of research was no longer about the food—postpartum anxiety was in the driver’s seat, pushing her to search for control. 

It’s also important to break away from the idea that there is one “right” way to mother. Just because we have access to information doesn’t mean there isn’t room for nuance. Take “healthy food” as an example. What constitutes a “healthy” diet has been a debated topic for decades and is often a wellness space filled with fads and extremes with each approach contradicting the next. There have been more rules prescribed to our food then I can count that cause people not to trust themselves and leave them seeing food as being good or bad. Food is not black or white. Our approach doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

In my client’s case, research had gone beyond just information-seeking. Sometimes, research is just research. But other times, research is:

  • Trying to find the “right” or “best” way to do something
  • Seeking reassurance
  • Grasping for certainty
  • Feeding your anxiety
  • An attempt to soothe your anxiety

I have seen this pattern play out many times with many of my clients. I believe that in many ways intensive mothering prevents us from seeing signs of anxiety. When we interpret perfectionism and the need to avoid mistakes at all costs as being a good mother, we have a lot of pressure to carry. It’s no wonder that so many of us find ourselves in the research rabbit hole.

Does that mean all research is bad? Of course not. But we need to learn the difference between when it’s helping and when it’s not. Researching should be used to provide you with enough information to make an informed decision. It should have boundaries—not be all-consuming. 

Excerpt from Releasing the Mother Load: How to Carry Less and Enjoy Motherhood More by Erica Djossa.

Erica Djossa

Erica Djossa is a registered psychotherapist, sought-after maternal mental health specialist, and the founder of wellness company Momwell. Her popular Momwell podcast has over a million downloads. Erica’s a regular contributor to publications like the Toronto Star, Scary Mommy, and Medium, and her insights have been shared by celebrities like Ashley Graham, Nia Long, Christy Turlington, and Adrienne Bosh. She lives in Toronto. For more, visit momwell.com

Self-Love is a Superpower

Dear Sounds True friends,

I believe self-love is a superpower.

When we treat ourselves with kindness, it turns on the learning centers of the brain and gives us the resources to face challenges and learn from our mistakes. Transformation requires a compassionate mindset, not shame.

And yet, people often worry that self-love will make them lazy, self-indulgent, or self-absorbed. Science shows just the opposite: people with greater self-love are more compassionate toward others, more successful and productive, and more resilient to stress.

The best news of all: self-love can be learned. We can rewire the structure of our brain and strengthen the neural circuitry of love toward ourselves and others. Each time we practice self-love, we grow this pathway.

My new children’s book, Good Morning, I Love You, Violet!, offers a road map for strengthening your child’s brain circuitry of deep calm, contentment, and self-love.

It is built on principles of psychology and neuroscience and offers a simple yet powerful practice.

As a mother, when asked what I believe is the most important thing we can teach our children, I always answer “self-love.” Learning to be on our own team and to treat ourselves with kindness is life-changing. There is no greater gift we can give our children. There is no greater gift we can give ourselves.

May this book plant seeds of kindness that ripple out into the world.

Shauna's signature

Shauna Shapiro, PhD

P.S. I invite you to download a free coloring sheet from the book, created by illustrator Susi Schaefer, to enjoy with the children in your life.

Shauna Shapiro is a mother, bestselling author, professor, clinical psychologist, and internationally recognized expert in mindfulness and self-compassion. She lives in Mill Valley, California. Learn more at drshaunashapiro.com.

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In this podcast, Tami Simon speaks with “edge expert,” certified sex therapist, and master social worker Dr. Stefani Goerlich about her new book, With Sprinkles on Top: Everything Vanilla People and Their Kinky Partners Need to Know to Communicate, Explore, and Connect. Give a listen to this much-needed discussion about destigmatizing kink and expanding our definition of a healthy relationship, as Tami and Stefani discuss: reassessing our sexual attitudes; how kinky became taboo; bringing kink into the “cultural redemption arc”; the misconceptions about trauma and kink; the concept of authority exchange; surrender and relaxation; kink as a relational, not a sexual, behavior; moving from secrecy to shared knowledge; decorating and enhancing one’s “core vanilla-ness”; discovering your fantasies; the nature of fetishes; understanding your erotic map; and more.

Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com

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