Tami Simon: Hello, friends. My name’s Tami Simon and I’m the founder of Sounds True. And I want to welcome you to the Sounds True podcast, Insights at the Edge. I also want to take a moment to introduce you to Sounds True’s new membership community and digital platform. It’s called Sounds True One. Sounds True One features original, premium transformational docuseries, community events, classes to start your day and relax in the evening, and special weekly live shows, including a video version of Insights at the Edge with an after-show community question-and-answer session with featured guests. I hope you’ll come join us, explore, come have fun with us, and connect with others. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com.
I also want to take a moment and introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation, our nonprofit that creates equitable access to transformational tools and teachings. You can learn more at soundstruefoundation.org. And in advance, thank you for your support.
Hello Sounds True One friends. Welcome. I’m so happy to have this chance to introduce you to a remarkable young person and a new friend, Kate Van Horn. Let me tell you a little bit about Kate. She’s a psychic and intuitive healer and a professional tarot reader. She offers one-on-one readings, workshops, and intuitive training to clients worldwide. Kate, as a trauma survivor, credits her psychic abilities to her healing journey, and we’re going to learn more about that. She candidly shares her story of overcoming sexual abuse, PTSD, and eating disorders in the hope of inspiring others to embrace their stories, their bodies, their gifts. With Sounds True, Kate Van Horn has written a new book. It’s called The Inner Tarot: A Modern Approach to Self-Compassion and Empowered Healing Using the Tarot. It’s a book that’s designed to be a resource and a guidebook, a book that helps you create your own relationship and your own practice with the tarot. Kate, welcome.
Kate Van Horn: Thanks for having me, Tami.
TS: I mentioned that you would share a bit with people by way of background, the birth of your own psychic abilities and how you understand that, how it came about in your life. Let’s start there.
KVH: Let’s start there. I often get the question, did you always know that you were psychic? Is this a gift you were aware of, maybe, in childhood? And the answer is no. I was fairly anxious as a child. I was very empathic, and now I understand it to be intuitive, but at the time, just highly sensitive to my environment, to different people, surroundings. And I believe that did really stem from childhood abuse that I had experienced at a young age. And over time, I struggled to figure out and to discern what was an energy that I was fearing and really picking up on versus what was my body just holding onto, so to speak.
So over time, throughout my healing experience and journey, I learned to not only ground my body but begin to connect with my spirituality, connect with spirit, begin to feel more purposeful in why the trauma occurred. And that subtly, over time, built to become a more psychic connection. But it took some of the inner work first, the reflection, the forgiveness, the understanding of how and why I am energetically the way I am. And then it became more of a celebration and a curiosity that I could explore and deepen at that point.
TS: Now, Kate, you said that you learned more about why the trauma occurred. I think for a lot of us, we never get an answer to that question or we think we’re making something up or we’re not clear. It’s like, why did this occur? I don’t know. What did you discover in your own case?
KVH: Well, I discovered, without unpacking all of my family’s history, but generational trauma and pain that was stemming far before me and beyond me. And more importantly, understanding that my resilience was something that I could see as a gift, and it could be something that I could use as a form of personal power to discover new areas, to build my business, to begin taking the risks that I have, to write a book. So just alchemizing the shadow and making it into something that feels lighter.
TS: Right. Now I’m going here, because I think this is actually a really big deal when you say “alchemizing the shadow.” As I said, I think for a lot of us, it’s very hard to reframe, which is my word, the difficult experiences and say, oh, this is part of what gave me this resilience and creative power. Tell me how you did that.
KVH: It began with therapy. Began with some pretty, what I describe as more clinical settings. So working through particularly DBT, dialectical behavioral therapy, followed by EMDR, somatic therapy to get more in touch with my body. My trauma manifested in a way that I used eating disorders, disordered eating patterns and behaviors, eventually, over-exercising—restricting as a way to control my emotions and what I was feeling as a result of the PTSD. So it was becoming the snowball effect. So it began with just some pretty intense therapy work. And that gave me the opportunity to process and begin to rewire.
But I was also craving something, what I describe as softer. Something a little bit more inviting. Because there was a lot of stigma and shame attached to the fact that I needed to do that type of therapy at all. So in tandem with that, at the same time, after I would go to groups and engage in all of the treatment I was being provided—which is a privilege and I’m very grateful for it—I would come home and I would try meditation. I would try moving intuitively on my yoga mat. And then eventually I found my first tarot deck.
So that to me was just something more creative and inviting, and my curiosity was piqued. And at the time, I needed as many tools in my toolbox to utilize, and I’m really grateful I found it at that point. So by no means am I saying tarot healed me, but it was a complement to my healing journey and it became the thing, the gateway, and the way that I was able to express myself and begin to feel more empowered and rewrite my story, so to speak.
TS: Do you believe and have the cards shared with you that you have some special relationship, if you will, with the tarot?
KVH: It’s developed over time. It’s funny because the tarot is a tool that we are meant to respect and appreciate because of their power. But at the same time, they are an extension of us. So as our experience with ourselves and our knowing of ourselves grows, I really believe that our relationship with our cards does as well. So the more you use them and work with them, the more they become an extension of you, so to speak. I feel like we are as comfortable with them as we are with our own mirror or own shadow, because they are really just a living, breathing compliment to us, extension of us.
TS: You mentioned in The Inner Tarot that a deck could be considered a living object. And I thought to myself, what exactly does Kate mean by that? Does she believe that all of her decks… Are they “sentient”? What do you mean?
KVH: Perhaps not sentient, but they are certainly… They hold a vibration. I do believe that every object, everything in our home, everything in our space, everything in our world carries some form of vibration. And I think that for us, it’s how intentional we are about engaging with it. If you have, say, a special family sacred object or heirloom, you treat it with that care. And same thing with the deck. I notice when I’m teaching students, they’re very hesitant. They’re very careful in the way that they approach it. And it’s because we’re acknowledging that it’s carrying maybe a little bit more potency or energy compared to another dish in our dishwasher or another pen on our desk. It carries something a little bit more intentional to us, because we’ve placed that intention on it. So what I mean in the book by “it’s living and breathing with us” is it’s experiencing all these memories with us in real time. It’s a part of our story, and it’s the way we articulate the story, but we’re making an impression on it.
TS: We’re going to get deeper into you and the tarot, but before we do, when you were describing your own healing journey, you talked about the connection that you made to spirit. And I know you do a type of channeled writing as part of your work as an intuitive. So tell me about that, about channeled writing and what “connection to spirit” means to you.
KVH: So for me, channeled writing as a practice is automatic writing. So it’s allowing your body to surrender into the experience enough that you feel as if you are channeling something, whether it’s a part of yourself—so your inner child, your future self, your higher self, or perhaps an energy outside of that. Spirit-guide. Spirit light. And it’s just a free flow of writing that allows you to really connect with the many layers to you rather than just the conscious mind of what we assume journaling has to look like. It can be very messy, random. And at the bottom of the page, when you get to the end of your writing, you might have really tapped into something that you didn’t even realize you were hoping to find or hoping to discover. So that’s the practice. And for me, that surrender piece is really the crucial part and the hardest part. Trusting enough.
I’m also very clairaudient, so my psychic abilities come through. We all have multiple psychic senses, but for me, my strongest is clairaudience. So writing was always really helpful to me, because I was able to channel that through the page and through the pen.
TS: OK. I get having the pen move uninterrupted, getting to the bottom of the page. But what I’m curious about is, as you’re doing that and this clairaudience is occurring, so you’re hearing with a subtle type of hearing. Is there a particular being or form or beings or forms that are expressing through the pen?
KVH: I think that’s for personal interpretation and definition. So for me, I sometimes go in just knowing that source, spirit, universe, whatever is here to guide and support me and allow me this time to reflect and really just see what comes up. And trusting what you need in your personal practice. For others, in the beginning, for me, I needed to call on a specific type of voice. So more often than not, it was a part of myself. My past self, my teenage self, my inner child, connecting with that so that I felt like it was familiar. So that I didn’t feel like I was just allowing any and every energy to move through me. It felt a little too intimate at the time. So that was a starting-off point for me—working with just the layers of myself, my future self, and who I was becoming. The woman I wanted to authentically be.
So I think defining that before your writing is important. Knowing who you want to hear from. Calling that voice or that energy down. Perhaps an ancestor, a loved one who’s passed. It’s really up to you and what feels safe, because spirituality and any practice—tarot, channeled writing—it’s important to feel that safety and that groundedness.
TS: So let’s say one of our listeners wants to try this practice of hearing from their future self and writing from that place. Can you share more just how they would go about it so that they really feel that they’re making that connection before they start writing?
KVH: Yeah. I think it’s important to take a few breaths first to just study the body. Get grounded in the body, remove distractions. It’s a basic for any spiritual engagement of any tool. But I would say after that, it’s seeing and asking to speak with her. Making it clear. Calling her forward. So I like to, maybe for a couple breaths with eyes closed, imagine what that energy would look like approaching me in a space where it’s really neutral, where we can meet and be able to speak freely and connect on a really authentic level. And then from there, I like to put on music. I find it really inspiring. I find it really helpful actually to not have the silence. To have a little bit filling the space. But if you’re new to this practice and listening, you might want to experiment with both.
But I turn on some music and I allow the first words to come through me and I see what that brings up, and then I just keep writing and writing. I try to set some intention for a length of time or a container of time. So a song or two songs, because I notice when we don’t have a clear end point, it starts to drag and we start to wonder, am I just writing? You start to question your writing. So maybe allowing it to be five, ten minutes max and going in baby steps. Because it is a strange thing. It’s a strange concept. It’s like, who and what am I hearing from? And that’s part of the process with anything that I teach and share. It’s like really, 90 percent of it is trust and trying just to try to see what comes through. And if it helps you, amazing. And if nothing really came up, because that happens to me sometimes too when I write, I’m like, oh, didn’t really receive too much today. And that’s OK as well. No judgment of the experience.
TS: Now I’m going to go back for a moment, because I introduced you as this remarkable young person, and I think that’s very true. And you described a bit about your healing journey. And in a way I felt that you were like, yeah, I did and yeah, I reframed it. And I’m thinking to myself, this is remarkable.
I know so many people—and yes, you had the advantages of all of the different therapeutic modalities and they were brought too—but I know a lot of young people and people of all ages who have gone through those modalities and don’t reach a place where they feel at peace with the trauma that’s happened to them in their lives and with their own powerful creative capacities. And so I’m curious, when you reflect, what would you say were the unusual, in my language, qualities that you brought to your healing journey that enabled this birth of you?
KVH: What a great question. I appreciate you seeing that. It’s interesting because I still feel so deeply flawed and very human and have my plenty of things I’m working through and working on as we all do. By no means do I think I’m completely fixed, but I do think I found something that’s more meaningful to me than the pain in the shadow. I think that’s what it really came down to. I was in this state of treading water, trying to forgive, understanding that forgiveness would feel like freedom. So for context to those listening, I experienced sexual abuse as a child, which is pretty unforgivable, to be honest. It’s one of the traumas that are just like, what do you do with this? I felt so disconnected from my body. I felt so unsure of who I was in my worth at such a very impressionable age.
And with that stemmed to this need to forgive, to move on, to set myself free, or else I would just continue to lose out on memories, experiences, moments in my young adult, now adult life. And for me, I think it was replacing it with passions and hobbies and interests like the tarot, like eventually building my business, like eventually writing this book where I’m like, I’m not completely over that experience, because it’s unforgivable in so many ways, but I’ve replaced it and supplemented with so many things that make me feel energized and feel in alignment. I just deeply respect the way that I spend my time now rather than observing it.
TS: Thank you. In reading The Inner Tarot, I was so impressed by how you’ve really created an educational manual for anyone who wants to really learn. Not just befriend and start talking to the deck, but actually really learn each card. And you say that learning about numerology was one, if not the most significant study that you took on that helped you find your way into the tarot. And I wonder if you can tell us about that and even take it further. Give us Kate Van Horn’s brief introduction to the one through ten cycle.
KVH: Absolutely. I’d be happy to. Numerology is such a great foundation for the tarot. The tarot is broken into two sections, and the majority of the cards fall under the minor arcana. And that particular section is our day-to-day life. It’s the way that we show up. The actions that we take. The people in our lives. The way we communicate with them. And it becomes a bit of an instruction manual for us. We might be getting spiritual guidance, but we’re also in a human body and a human experience trying to work with those energies and influences. So the minor arcana is more similar to a playing card deck and what we’re used to in that the four suits follow an ace through ten cycle, like Tami mentioned. And the numerology really gives me insight on what part of the journey someone’s on or within—what chapter of the story they’re within. And it gives me insight on what some of the difficulties of that chapter could be, the pros and cons, so to speak, and where they could be needing more support.
So I’m going to begin. I’ll go through all ten briefly for everyone. So the ace is really the beginning stages. It’s the first invitation into the cycle, and it’s something that we don’t have to take. We don’t have to take every opportunity or every invitation that comes our way. But it’s exciting when it presents itself because it’s new, it’s fresh, and it’s really a gift from spirit, so to speak. Once we make that choice, that’s when we really drop into the entire cycle, and that’s at the two. So twos are about choices, duality, balance, connection perhaps with someone as well. Like the two of cups is a card that brings up connection. So we choose. We say, OK, I am going to do it.
And then the threes are about progress, and particularly how other people and our communities are affecting our journey. Fours are about taking an intuitive and sacred pause. We all know what that feels like, when we just need to take a beat, we need to take a moment, and we need to pause and reflect a little bit. So they’re very passive. They’re more about stillness. Fives are where the conflict occurs. I think that it’s interesting, there’s this pause briefly before the chaos of the fives. Fives are where change come up and discomfort can come up. It’s at the peak of conflict and within the center of the cycle. Six is about, honestly, in my opinion, it’s about resilience and healing. Piecing together the understanding and the learning of the previous challenge in the fives and getting more understanding, more clarity there. Seven is a time of self-reflection. Noticing, maybe unprompted, what needs to change or what needs to be transformed within yourself. So it’s a very interesting part of the journey.
Eight is highly abundant, very active. It’s the final step you have to take to receive the abundance and the closure that’s to come. Nines are that completion. It’s an independent celebration of everything you’ve accomplished from the choice, from the beginning, from all the stages of the cycle. And lastly, the tens are the full closing of the chapter, in the sense that you understand what you’re meant to take from this previous cycle and what’s meant to come into the next one with you. So how you’re going to support other people, give back to other people, or just really be within your community as a result of your personal progress.
TS: How did you go about your study of numerology? How did you develop this one-to-ten knowing?
KVH: I learned through learning about tarot. I didn’t set out to become really well-versed in numerology. I just quickly realized how much it was impacting my tarot practice. So I was reading plenty of tarot books that spoke on it and shared about it. But over time, honestly, I think some of my best learning for all areas of the tarot deck were in my readings. So first, that was with friends and family and really any volunteer who was willing to have a reading with me. And then now, at this point, I read for clients almost every day. So I get a constant chance to reframe and re-understand these cards, relearn them from different perspectives. It allows me a wider and deeper connection to them. So the numerology, it’s also the repetition of—even if I’m new with a client or with a soul who I’m connecting with, even if it’s new and fresh—I have that baseline of, OK, we have twos and threes here. They’re pretty early stages, and I can riff off of that. I can use that as the jumping off point in a reading.
TS: I noticed what I appreciated so much about the way you presented the numerological journey, if you will, from one to ten is, as someone who—I’m not a tarot reader at all, I haven’t even experimented and used tarot as part of my inner library for more than two decades, if you will. But I would always, if I got a card, I’d have to look it up. I’m like, oh, what’s the six? What’s this? I’d look up each one. I never had a sense of, oh, I understand this natural progression, the system. And numerology, it exists in nature. You know what I mean?
KVH: Yeah.
TS: There’s one goose, there’s two geese, there’s three geese in the sky, there’s four. You can count them. And so it helped ground me, in a certain way, in the structure, I guess, of the tarot.
KVH: I’m glad to hear that, because I actually believe if you can learn the elemental association—so earth, fire, water and air and how they influence us, and therefore how they influence the tarot and then the numerology as layer number two. And then from there, you have a pretty great foundation of the tarot deck as a whole. You are able to then look at any card based on the imagery. And that’s dependent on the deck that you choose. And really just ask yourself the follow-up questions of how is this scene interacting with the chosen element? Earth, fire, water or air. And what stage of the cycle are they in? And how could that link and combine and become a message for me?
TS: Can you share with us, once again, a brief Kate Van Horn understanding of the elements?
KVH: Sure. Earth is related to the pentacle suit, and it’s anything physical, anything in the 3D. So I say in the book, if you can smell it, touch it, hold it, it’s in the pentacle suit. So money is often associated with earth as it relates to tarot. But I would extend it and say that it also has to do with our physical safety, our environments, our bodies and health, and our abundance overall. So that’s the earth element.
The water element is associated with the cup suit in tarot. And that is all about our emotions as well as our subconscious connection. It is our intuition, perhaps our creativity. It has a more feminine healing association as well.
Next up is the swords, AKA the air element. And the air element is very cerebral. So air element is all about communication and understanding and learning and our mindset. So I say in the book, my little tip for this is to recognize that the air element and the sword suit is anything above the shoulders. So how you communicate and articulate yourself from the throat and how your mind, including your self-talk works and how you process things.
Lastly, the wands, and that is the fire element. The fire element is that little bit of spice that we add to our experience. It’s something that is hard to really harness, just like a true fire element. The wand suit has anything to do with our confidence, our personal power, our ego, but also our creative energy—the unique and very special parts of us that are just individual. Our individuality.
TS: Have you done any important readings for yourself related to the book itself, The Inner Tarot?
KVH: I have. I will admit—and I feel like we touched on this when we were connecting a bit prior to this. It’s a little hard to read for yourself and stay unbiased when you are so connected to the practice or the project or, in my case, the book. But I did, and I’m pretty happy with the cards that came out. I can’t complain. I’m proud of the work and I’m proud of—honestly, the book itself was being written for close to a decade. I was compiling little bits and pieces for it and practices over the years. So I feel like this was a long conversation with myself for sure.
TS: Well, as your publisher, I’m very happy to hear you had such positive readings about The Inner Tarot. Now the subtitle of the book, A Modern Approach to Self-Compassion and Empowered Healing Using the Tarot. And I could imagine that bringing in this whole notion of self-compassion and how the tarot helps us with self-compassion. Tell me more about that.
KVH: Well, I think things like self-love, for example, is a phrase we’re all used to hearing. And self-compassion is like that grace we can give ourselves. True compassion is to be OK with the flaws and the imperfections as well. And I think that the openness is so important when you approach any new practice, but especially tarot. So being OK with the fact that it’s going to be beautifully frustrating to begin, and it’s going to bring up, perhaps, energies or themes you don’t want to look at or you don’t feel like dealing with and having the compassion to say, I’m going to sit in this anyway. I’m going to let myself be a little bit uncomfortable and still really graceful and gentle with myself.
Because I think for me too, two things are at play here. I came to this work and I found this work through a lot of shadow work. It was heavy, it was dense, it was a little darker. And honestly, that’s what a lot of people say to me when I tell them I’m a tarot reader. That stuff’s spooky, it’s eerie, it’s scary. And I wanted this to feel gentle. And I wanted this to feel really comfortable. And I think giving ourselves compassion is a way to make it feel like that sacred space.
TS: What I noticed is that I used to think, before reading The Inner Tarot, that it was spooky and scary. And I think that’s because I didn’t feel like I had enough knowledge. I wasn’t educated well enough. So I would pull a card and I would terrify myself with it, or I’d misinterpret it. Or I’d get a reading from somebody, and it was a lot of their projection, I felt, and it didn’t feel like it had a lot of applicability. So I’m curious for people who are beginners, what’s your dos and don’ts of how to approach working with the tarot so it is gentle, so it’s not scary?
KVH: It’s funny. It’s like getting in a car and never learning how to drive it. It would be pretty terrifying to take a stab at that. And equally, it’s terrifying to get in the car with someone who’s never learned how to drive. So for the readers who maybe weren’t quite ready to hold that space, my recommendation is—and the reason why The Inner Tarot is structured this way and written this way is—I recommend making it a personal practice first and developing your own understanding of it. Taking your time, being patient, maybe pulling one card a day and reflecting on your body’s reaction to that card before you even read about it. Because going back to what you said about the projections or the assumptions we have, I think let yourself, your first experience with a card define it for you.
It could have special meaning to you that is nothing like the tarot blogs you read or my book or, perhaps, how a friend interprets it. So I think being patient enough that it can be a private practice before you have to immediately share readings or answer really complicated questions. I also like to recommend that it’s more of a creative initiation. It initiates journaling or maybe it decides how you want to express yourself that day. Use it as a way to form the next step, the next action, rather than opening yourself to some sort of specific message or guidance. Does that make sense?
TS: It does. Do you suggest that people bring forward a question as they pull a card a day? Is there a specific question or just, what’s the card for today?
KVH: Yeah. What can I be mindful of today? What energy might I observe today? What should I be aware of in my communication? How are my emotions going to impact me today? Things like that. Which also requires a bit of regulating beforehand and saying, oh, this is what I might need. I know I have a very busy day ahead—probably not the day to unpack something deeply meaningful. Maybe it’s just simply, how do I stay present knowing what’s on my calendar and what’s on my plate?
TS: Now we’ve talked some about the minor arcana. Tell me your sense of the major arcana and how you approach it and frame it.
KVH: So the majors begin at zero and end at 21. And it’s a 22 card system within the larger, greater tarot deck that follows the fool’s journey. Now the fool, I call them the protagonist of the tarot, and it’s really who we are embodying when we begin this process of reading cards. So we drop into the fool’s experience and navigate each of these chapters. So the major arcana cards are really a full life cycle, so to speak. They are the heavy hitters of the deck. If you pull a lot of them, there’s big lessons to consider and there’s bigger themes to really process and sit with. So knowing that the energy’s maybe not going to move as quickly either with these cards. It takes a little bit of time to understand each archetype and to fully embody them. But they’re the benchmarks or the milestones throughout our lives. Anything from the lovers, which is where we find soul connection, to cards like the tower, which is that very uncomfortable lesson that takes us down. It’s like an ego death, so to speak. There’s highs and lows, but they’re impactful for sure.
TS: Where does the fool’s journey eventually take us fools?
KVH: It depends. What’s really interesting about the deck is that it’s so cyclical. I realized very quickly that we are in many cycles at once. We’re in many circles of understanding and learning. But the last card of the deck is the world. So it’s supposed to be the finale, it’s supposed to be the end. But yet even in the imagery of the traditional Smith Rider Waite deck, there’s a wreath around the figure’s body that’s in the shape of a zero. So it’s as if to say, hey, you’re about to be the fool again. So I think in much less words, the journey never really stops. It’s never over.
TS: Well, I think it’s a really important point, Kate, that you’re making, that we could be on several journeys at once. And also that there is no final ending point. Because I think a lot of times, when people enter a path of spiritual development, spiritual unfolding, they’re surprised when they find themselves back at zero. What? I thought I was going to be landing in the territory of forever enlightened bliss, not that I was going to be starting a new learning journey of some kind. I’m wondering if you can comment on that.
KVH: It is humbling when we realize it begins again, and we’re back where we started. Seemingly where we started. But I think that what we learned along the way has made this next go at it, this next chance to move through an experience with a lot more ease. So I think emphasizing that. Like oh, I’ve been here before. I know how to navigate this. I know how to show up for myself. I know that spirits guiding me even when I feel very isolated and alone. Just that awareness piece makes it a little bit easier each time if we allow it to.
TS: I’m going to ask you, if you will, to do a reading that can apply for everyone listening. Something that has enough universal connection. I was thinking something like—this time we’re in right now, post pandemic. I think so many people feel like the pandemic shifted the grid, so to speak. Shifted their life, shifted maybe where they live or their relationships. Here we are, it’s a great time of change, accelerated change. What does the tarot right now want us to know about this time?
KVH: Three major arcana cards, oddly enough. So what’s coming forward? I like the way you said accelerate. I have the chariot card, which is a card about momentum and forward motion. It’s a little bit of a push. It requires a bit of brute strength and that ability to get up and get going. And I have it with also the high priestess here and the magician reversed. And I think the high priestess, as a theme and as a message, usually relates to our stillness and to our understanding in the more subtle realms: what we hear when we get quiet, what we start to notice when we are looking for the more subtle details rather than the obvious. So we have these two cards that are pretty polar opposite. So I pulled to better understand that, and I got the four of pentacles and the magician reversed.
And I think what’s coming through is know the speed at which you can sustain. I think when collectively we go through something really massive, we’re required to step into some form of resilience. For example, the pandemic. It was an immediate adjustment. And now, as we recalibrate and as we move based on free will and understanding of “there is always going to be potential threats or potential circumstances,” but what is the speed that I can sustain? And can I start to notice and acknowledge what it feels like—mind, body, and spirit—to be slightly out of alignment? And can I course correct? Can I course correct? I say that because the four of pentacles is about our reserve. It’s knowing when to do a bit less or save or hoard our energy.
And the magician, when upright, is a card of complete alignment. When spirits are channeling through us. So maybe to answer this question beyond the reference to the speed, it’s also knowing how to reserve and hold and carry your magic, your unique gift, in a way that’s going to be a tool when you need to rely on it. Maintaining it rather than depleting it. How does that sound, Tami?
TS: Well, I think you’re pointing to something that many, many people are interested in right now, which is, how do I not burn out? Trying to keep my nervous system basically managed and sane. And I feel on the edge so much of the time. I’ve heard from so many people, long-term meditators and different kinds of spiritual practitioners, that they’re having to not just double down on their practices but quadruple down. So that resonates, I think, with what you’re saying.
KVH: It does. And it’s interesting because I felt the same at the beginning of this year, early 2024, a lot of what’s to come in this upcoming year is a very common theme in questions. And every client almost, and in the collective readings I was doing, nervous system regulation was a huge piece, really understanding the complexity of that and how fragmented a lot of our energy has become based on—maybe it’s personal traumas like the ones that I shared today, or very large collective traumas that are both impacting us. And we’re just trying to move like the chariot on autopilot. But the reality is, it’s gotten so complex that we have to better understand it, I think, to move forward.
TS: Now, just to ask you a couple questions to reflect on how you did this reading. You pulled three cards and you said, huh, all major arcana cards. And was a moment like, huh, OK, what does Kate make of that?
KVH: Well, I think the fact that I wasn’t totally surprised, because it’s collective energy. It makes sense that everyone’s instruction of how to do it or how to act on this message or how to receive it is going to be unique to them. Their circumstances, their natural makeup, and who they are and their preferences. So to me, it wasn’t surprising when reading for a collective, because it’s really a theme and an overarching force rather than a specific response to have.
TS: And then you talked about pulling what you call the clarifying card.
KVH: Yes.
TS: I was curious about that. So do you just like, oh, I’d like more information about that. Pull a card. Oh, I’d like even more information. Pull a card. Oh, I’d like even more information. Before you know it you’ve pulled however many clarifying cards, or how do you go about that?
KVH: So you have to know when to stop. And I talk about that in the book. I call it panic pulling when we’re clarifying too much, when we’re just pulling and pulling and pulling. And the key differentiator to anyone who’s pulling clarifying cards is to consider them in addition to the sentence or in addition to the previous message. It’s not a way to replace it. It’s just to expand on it. So for me, I was picking up on something and feeling and sensing something from the first three cards, but I needed a little bit more context. So in my mind, and as I was shuffling, I just asked, OK, can you give me an end note to close this loop, so to speak? And that’s what the clarifier is. It’s just a chance to give it a little bit more detail and context.
TS: Now, Kate, I’m very impressed, as I’ve mentioned now a couple of times, but about you as an intuitive. And here, the tarot is one of your main forms. I’ve watched intuitives throw the bones, a strange collection of found objects and coins.
KVH: Interesting.
TS: I’ve watched people read tea leaves. I’ve watched all kinds of things. And I guess I wonder, how do you understand and appreciate the interaction between an intuitive and whatever method they’re using?
KVH: I think especially for someone who is really leaning into this work in a more professional way or more grounded or specific way, it is becoming really just a way to channel and let our bodies feel present and in the experience. So for me, I’m not even really thinking necessarily about any of the history of the cards or the symbolism or the specifics. That all goes out the window. I have that in the back of my mind, because I’ve read and studied them. But when it comes down to intuitively channeling with them, I think for me it’s the fact that it’s tangible. I feel my best, I feel most connected to my intuition when I’m moving my body. So to sit still in mediation—I think it’s the same reason I love to use channeled writing. There’s some level of movement and interaction. So for me, the cards feel like that. It becomes this dance. It becomes something I can do to tap in.
And when I look at them, when I have them in front of me, it almost becomes this little portal. I know that sounds so crazy to say, but it becomes a space that I can really absorb and I can feel into, and it makes me so present that my clairs become more activated. So my psychic sense of clairaudience can start to feed me some clues or just a knowing from my core, my center. The cards tell the story for me, but of course I’m able to get clearer detail because of just psychic connection.
TS: Now, you mentioned that in your own life you did a bunch of “shadow work” that was part of what has prepared you to now be effective as an intuitive. Can you tell us more about that? What exactly did you do?
KVH: The shadow work that I found most difficult—and this is my personal experience—was not just addressing the depths of the traumas and the darkness of them. It was also looking at how that impacted me in a way that I started to act out of shadow and move from my shadow. Meaning, how was I becoming a mean girl, so to speak? Growing up, I was very hard on people and mean to people, and I was incredibly angry. And my rage would come through, and I would say not the kindest things. And I would manipulate—these horrible tactics to feel in control. And I think that is what’s interesting is, as a victim of abuse, we can use our experience and then translate that to our fears. Become our way of putting up guards. We’re angry, we’re frustrated, we’re mean, whatever it is.
And for me, that’s what my shadow was. I had to look at the fact that I was doing those things. I had to look at the fact that I was treating myself and others poorly. I had to look at the fact that I was using ego responses rather than loving responses. And I think that was honestly the hardest thing was to look in the mirror and be like, you are not being the best person you can be right now. And while I understand there’s a scared or sad or hurt little girl, the shadow is the fact that it’s not an excuse, and we have to move through this. We have to find other ways to transfer and translate our energy.
TS: You previously talked about forgiveness in reference to forgiving others. How were you able to bring that forgiveness to yourself when you talk about being a mean girl?
KVH: Yeah. It was a little bit of a something. I think I’m still working through that. I think I still notice myself trying to—I don’t want to say overcompensate, but be so mindful about making sure others in my circle, whether it’s professionally, personally, know my integrity and know where I’m coming from and moving from. And that has led me to maybe not always have the clearest boundaries. And I’m still working on some of the people-pleasing behaviors. As a result of that shadow work, I became so mindful of the ways that I used to be that I’m doing everything in my power to prove that’s not who I am anymore. And I think it’s just a constant balance of, how do I allow myself to be flawed, yes, imperfect, yes, but also present in my personal healing and really empowered, in the sense that some of this is my responsibility moving forward. So not really a clear answer, but—
TS: That’s OK. As a practicing intuitive, what would you suggest to people who have said, I’ve gone to various intuitives, and I’m not going to go anymore because I’ve gotten such strange feedback, and I can’t tell necessarily if the person’s right on or not. How can we use our own discernment in working with intuitives?
KVH: I think that if you start to have difficult experiences, it’s OK to take a break. It’s OK to feel like you need a little bit of a pause rather than needing to continue to seek or search. Perhaps that’s the message to look inward a little bit, and that there could be an opportunity to hone your own intuition or really approach it from your own psychic abilities. But I would say for me, I do feel like you have a knowing if someone is the right type of energy for you to sit with for that very intimate experience. If you’re not sure, word of mouth is always a helpful thing. Who are the people you trust? Have they ever seen someone that they appreciate? That they valued? Can you feel more grounded knowing that a friend, a family member has worked with this person before?
It’s a sacred thing and it takes some trial and error. Just like dating or any other experience where you open yourself to new people and new connections. Some will work, some won’t. But I think perhaps asking people who you really trust and value if they have any ideas.
TS: OK. One more thing I want to talk to you about, because you mentioned that you really love the physical world, whether that’s movement or the cards as a physical object. And I know you help people and offer space readings. And I wonder if you can tell me a little bit more about that. How does it work? You’re obviously not in their space. How are you sensing and feeling what their physical space needs?
KVH: Yeah. So what I do is I actually pull cards and channel the personality of their home and space. So what I’ll do is, I’ll ask them what experience they’re having in their home. Are you noticing you’re having trouble sleeping? Are you noticing this? Are you noticing that? And then from there, we’ll set clear intention. And similar to how I will ask a spirit guide to speak in the reading, instead, I ask for their home and their environment to give me clues and give me understanding of what’s helping them or hindering them in that time. And I really believe that nothing’s by accident. There’s so many synchronicities and so many things that are divinely timed, including when we live in certain homes and the lesson and the vibration that home carries, be it from the previous people that lived there, the land that the home is sitting on, or the way you are engaging in showing up in that home. So I’m able to see through clairvoyance and through the cards little bits and pieces of maybe where energy’s collecting, or perhaps it’s stagnant or stuck, and help them understand how to make the space feel better suited for them.
TS: Now you said asking the home to speak through the cards, to speak through the reading, just like you could ask a spirit guide. Can you tell me what you mean by asking a spirit guide to come through the reading?
KVH: So when I’m working with a client, say for just a more healing reading, general reading, so to speak, I will just ask for their higher self to come forward so that their authentic higher self is part of the experience too, but then also their spirit team. So I consider that angels, ancestors, loved ones, spirit guides, all coming from unconditional love.
So sometimes it just feels like a warmth or a light that’s present. Other times a very clear—if mediumship is activated, then it could be a past loved one who they lost. And it just depends, really, on what they need specifically and how the guidance wants to come through. So for some people, I’ll be reading and I’m like, whoa, they have very blunt and direct guides. Others have a spirit team that just feels like it’s there to support and uplift. Not necessarily instruct. And I think it comes to them in divine timing and based on what they need in that present day.
TS: Now you mentioned that you have this terrific love for the tarot, and that’s obvious. It comes across. How many decks do you have Kate?
KVH: So many. So many. I have gotten rid of quite a few, because when I find one that doesn’t really resonate with me and that doesn’t connect with me, I do usually give it away when I find someone who it does work for. So I had upwards of like 50 tarot decks at one point. And I think it was helpful for me at the time, because I wanted to study all the different interpretations as far as the art. I wanted to see how other people viewed the cards. But at this point, I think my collection’s closer to about 20, and I use five. So there’s five that I use consistently for my client work. There’s one that I use—I put it into retirement, I say. And that was my very first deck. And that’s one I don’t allow others to use. That’s one that I just consider like an old friend.
TS: And if I said, just for a thought experiment here, Kate, I’m going to take all your card decks away.
KVH: Oh, I’d be so—
TS: I’m going to take them all away. Sorry. No. I know. But you’d get over it. And then I’d say, OK. Now I’d like you to continue functioning as an intuitive. What would happen?
KVH: I would be able to. I would just miss my grounding tool, but I’d find a new one. I’ve done readings without tarot decks, but I feel like at this point, what’s funny is, I don’t use any other types of intuitive decks. So not oracle decks or angel cards. I stick strictly to tarot. And it’s just become such an extension of me that I don’t know. I would hope that my readings maintain the same feeling to them. But I think they’re just such a big part of how I express my intuition that it would be different for sure. It’d be a learning curve.
TS: And finally, you talked about how this book has been ten years in the making. What do you hope the ripples of The Inner Tarot will be in the world?
KVH: I really hope that there are breakthrough moments. Moments of appreciation and understanding when someone’s moving through the practices. These glimpses of what’s possible and the joy they can start to tap into as they reframe these different themes. But in addition to that, in a bigger and broader scale, I really want to elevate a lot of the understanding of what tarot is. And I want to bring a sophistication and a pride to it. It’s something that is—it dates back to the 15th century, and it began as this aristocratic, beautiful game that people would play. And they would commission their own tarot decks that were personal to them. And it was very special. And then over time, it got more associated with the divination and the mysticism, and I love that too. It’s time for us to break past those barriers of fear and stop thinking it is here to disrupt our experience. It’s here to enhance it. And it’s here to be celebrated too.
TS: When you talk about elevating it and giving it its proper place, it reminds me of the question I asked early on that I felt you dodged a little when I said, do you think you have some special—I didn’t use this word, but I’ll use it now—karmic relationship with tarot itself? Because what a role for you to play for tarot in the world to help elevate its—and you’re the right person to do it—its appreciation, its depth, its power, and really educate people properly on it. What a terrific karmic destiny for you.
KVH: That’s an interesting way to put it. And I’m going to definitely absorb that and take that in, because I never thought of it that way. But I do feel like, in the same way that I was trying to break some of the shame and the stigma of what I was experiencing getting the diagnosis of PTSD and moving through the therapy treatment for my eating disorder, there were so many things. I remember just feeling like, is this who I am? The woman in therapy all the time, the woman trying to heal? And I think when it came to tarot, I started to get confronted with the same judgment. What does that mean, you’re a tarot reader? These sometimes very overt, other times more passive-aggressive questioning of my intuition and therefore my divine connection, which is so special to me and so important to me. So yeah. Really respecting it and elevating in that way so that we can celebrate not only ourselves, but these practices that have been really shunned for some time.
TS: Well, you are elevating them. I’ve been speaking with Kate Van Horn. She’s the author of the new book, The Inner Tarot: A Modern Approach to Self-Compassion and Empowered Healing Using the Tarot. Thank you so much for pouring yourself into this terrific resource. Thank you, Kate.
KVH: Thank you. Thank you, Tami.
TS: And if you’d like to watch Insights at the Edge on video and participate in the after-show Q&A session with our guests, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community featuring award-winning original shows, live classes, community learning, guided meditations, and more with the leading wisdom teachers of our time. Use promo code PODCAST to get your first month free. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com. Sounds True: waking up the world.
