UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT: The following transcript may contain typographical errors or other mistakes due to inconsistencies in audio quality, background noise, or other factors. We cannot guarantee its precision or completeness. We encourage you to use this as a supplement to your own notes and recollection of the session.
Tami Simon: Hello friends. My name is Tami Simon and I’m the founder of Sounds True. And I want to welcome you to the Sounds True podcast, Insights at the Edge. I also want to take a moment to introduce you to Sounds True’s new membership community and digital platform. It’s called Sounds True One. Sounds True One features original premium transformational docuseries, community events, classes to start your day and relax in the evening, special weekly live shows including a video version of Insights at the Edge with an after-show community question-and-answer session with featured guests. I hope you’ll come join us, explore, come have fun with us and connect with others. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com.
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In this episode of Insights at the Edge, my guest is Jessica Long, one of America’s most decorated athletes of all times, and someone who I find to be tremendously inspiring, a Paralympic champion. Jessica was born with congenital defects in her lower legs requiring double amputation, and she was placed for adoption at 13 months old. Supported by the love of her family, she became a world champion Paralympic swimmer with 30 medals, 30 medals. To her credit, Jessica is a speaker, author, advocate, and sports personality who helps people live with purpose.
With Sounds true, Jessica Long is the author of a children’s book, it’s called The Mermaid with No Tail. It has a foreword by Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps, who writes, “Every child should hear this story so that they learn that it’s OK to be different.” Jessica Long is also the author of a new book with Sounds True, it’s called Beyond the Surface. And I’m so pleased, Jessica, that you’re here with us to talk about your new book, which really does go quite beyond the surface. I was amazed that here you are at just 32 years old, and the level of self-awareness you have and that you express yourself from in the book is really amazing. So welcome. It’s great to have this chance to talk to you.
Jessica Long: Oh my goodness, it’s so great to be here. Thank you for having me.
TS: For people who perhaps are meeting you for the first time here, I wonder if you can share a bit from your heart, in your own words, about your journey that brought you to be a Paralympic swimmer.
JL: Yeah, it’s definitely a story. I was born to a 16-year-old Russian girl and just due to my leg deformities, she just wasn’t able to take care of me, so she put me out for adoption and I was adopted by an American couple here in Baltimore, Maryland who had to take two kids and they just weren’t able to have anymore. So they adopted me and my brother in the same orphanage, which is pretty amazing. And then they ended up having two more kids. So I’m one of six kids, but I think the craziest thing, I was adopted at 13 months. At 18 months my legs were amputated so I could be fitted with prosthetic legs. I fell in love with sports. I think growing up just being different, I always wanted to be ahead of everyone else who looked different than me, so I fell in love with sports.
I did gymnastics for the longest time and I loved it. I loved competing. I think that was something from an early age that my parents saw that I was just such a competitor. But over time with gymnastics and jumping on my knees, my parents were really afraid I would hurt my knees to the point where I couldn’t wear the prosthetic legs that I have. So we found swimming and in swimming and in paralympic swimming, you actually don’t wear any prosthetics. And I think that’s why I loved it so much because it gave me this feeling of control, power, strong, confident. It gave me all these amazing things and it wasn’t long after that that I found out about the Paralympics and what the Paralympics just can do for those who are different, right? The word para and Paralympics means parallel and I will never forget being with my parents, learning about the Paralympic movement and just falling in love with this idea that I could meet others who are like me.
And I ended up going to my very first Paralympic meet, which wasn’t long after making the 2004 Paralympic team, and somehow I ended up making the team going and competing and winning my very first Paralympic medal, which was such an amazing time in that first race. I ended up going up against the world record holder from Israel and twice my age, and I’ll never forget a hundred meter freestyle to elapse down and back. And later I found out after the official said, take you or go that I was in fifth place, which is not exactly the place you want to be, and I will never, I ended up catching her and we’re about 15 meters out and I remember saying I did not come here to get second. I ended up winning my very first Paralympic medal by a 10th of a second in the a hundred meter for sale as a 12-year-old. Here I am competing 20 years later loving what I’m doing, just loving this idea of inspiring, giving others purpose, just hopefully motivating people to be the best that they can be.
TS: I mentioned that I thought you had a tremendous amount of self-awareness, and one of the things I’m really interested in is your analysis of your own drive and how that has changed for you, if it has over the years, what drove you in the beginning and what drives you now?
JL: Yeah, and that’s such a great question. I think when I was younger it was all about proving myself just being so different, even the audience. Can you imagine being born without legs and looking around this world and thinking you are the only one who’s different? And I think for me, my drive was just to prove that I was good enough. And I think so many of us, whether we understand it or not, we just want to feel good enough. And I think that was definitely a very big motivator for me, especially as a little girl who it wasn’t my decision to be adopted and I’m so grateful that I was, but nobody asked me a baby at 13 months old if I wanted to be adopted, and nobody asked me if I wanted to be different and disabled, right? There were so many things that were just hard and it’s so crazy because all I ever heard growing up too was that at some point when you’re done growing things will be easier and better, but it definitely brought a lot of challenges just being different and knowing that I was different.
So I think for me, my purpose was always I wanted to prove to others that I was good enough, and I think that’s huge, just proving that I was enough. And I think that is something that a lot of us can feel during different seasons of our life. And I’m so grateful for Paralympics because it gave me the opportunity to showcase this competitive side, but also it gave me the opportunity to grow and learn and gain this amazing perspective that life is going to be through so many seasons. And even though I didn’t feel good enough throughout my whole career, I had to learn that I was good enough or without the gold medals.
TS: What’s interesting to me is that you’ve been on that journey and you have discovered it’s clear in the way you tell the story and Beyond the Surface your own sense of intrinsic worth, and yet you’re still motivated to compete and win the gold. So I’m curious for those of us who have looked into our lives and said, wow, there’s some weird mixture, you could say, this is my own language of pathology and purpose in my life. There’s something going on. Am I running from something? I’m trying to prove something and I’m actually also really in a genuine way on a pure heart’s purpose and it’s all mixed in. And as I work out those, this is just me saying those parts of the driver system that are about proving something, am I still driven? Are you still going to go out in 2028 in Los Angeles and give everything you have to win the gold?
JL: I’m going to try my best. I think that’s all we can do. Yes, LA will be my final games, but I just love what you said about just being driven and that purpose. I think it’s so important to set goals for yourself, and I think so often we just get so caught up with our daily busy lives that we forget to set goals. And for me, I always want to be challenged but also challenging myself. But yes, LA will be the final show. Paris truly was amazing coming home with two gold medals. But I definitely love that idea of purpose and what you’re saying, having that purpose because I think deep down, whether we believe it or not, we all want to feel that we’re impacting this world or leaving it a better place that better than we could ever imagine. And I really hope to have that impact for others.
TS: You make a connection about how we can turn our pain into purpose. And I wonder if you can speak directly to that.
JL: Yeah, I think that’s so broad. I don’t know every single pain that people have felt. I know my own pain that I felt like I was insignificant. I felt like that I was missing half of my body, that nobody could ever love me. I felt that, and I think you hear that right? Sometimes people talk about wanting a boy and they got a girl or vice versa. And I think this idea of turning your pain into purpose is so inspiring, and I love this idea that we can have an impact on each other. My story, I hope, is impacting each and every person in this world to just be the best version of themselves. But it is hard to see the thing in you that you feel is the most ugly and hard and difficult thing that you have to process, but knowing that somehow it can impact another human. And I think that’s what it’s all about, is growing and being the best version of yourself. And obviously I love just gaining that perspective, especially over every Paralympics, but also just being different, seeing the world in a different perspective. And I think it’s so important to find that you find your purpose, but also figure out, okay, what is that plan, that purpose changing just the world to make it a better place?
TS: What would you say to someone who has a sense of being different and it’s painful for them and they haven’t found a way yet to turn it into something purposeful, they’re more just with the pain of that experience.
JL: Yeah, I think that’s an amazing question, and I don’t know if I’ve ever been asked that question. I think it’s okay to be frustrated and angry and upset with whatever cards you are dealt with, whatever life has brought you. For me, it was no legs and adoption, but it’s okay to be upset with where you’re at. I think you just can’t live there. And I think that’s the most important thing is if you can find a way to continue moving forward. And it’s hard, right? Seasons are not just our typical seasons. They can last so much longer than we expect, but if you can find a way to just, I think it’s always important to be doing work on yourself and to find ways to continue to move forward even through the ugly, even through the anger. I’ve always talked about anger being such a powerful emotion, and I think that’s what allowed me to be successful. So if you’re upset with your situation or whatever happened to you or whatever you’re going through, let’s use that pain into purpose. Find a way to say, Hey, I’m worth it. My story is worth it and I’m going to make an impact.
TS: No, it’s interesting that you said that you think that was part of what allowed you to be successful was actually how angry you felt. And I think this is a really important point, Jessica, because I think a lot of people feel quite angry right now about things that are happening in the world, or it could be something that’s happening more close to them or within their family system, but there’s a lot of anger and once again, tapping into that, I’d love to hear more about what you have to say about that.
JL: Yeah, I think first and foremost, anger is such a good emotion and definitely you have to work through it and go through it, but if you are angry about something, I think that’s a perfect opportunity for change, whether it’s changing yourself or changing the world to be a better place. And I think for me, I was angry that I was missing legs. I was born different. I had lots of surgeries on my legs and there was a lot of times that I just struggled to be different. And anger for me was just such a motivator to be better, to prove. I always love this idea of proving that I was better and different and that I was going to make a difference. And I think first and foremost, it’s important to validate your feelings. I love this idea that we can just, whatever you’re feeling, right, whether you’re angry about a situation or your life or just where you ended up, that you have to feel validated that it’s okay to feel these thoughts.
You are human right. I feel like so often we forget that people are just human and we have so many beautiful emotions that are so different and they come in waves or rollercoasters and they can be up and down and every day is different. But if you can allow yourself to feel those things, I think that’s one of the most beautiful parts of being human, but also finding a way to turn pain into purpose. And I love this idea that what can you use your pain to impact others, right? I know that I’m different. I know that I was born different. I know that I have hopefully something to offer this world, whether it’s adoption, disability or just being the best that you can be, but everyone has a story and it’s so important to use your story and no story is insignificant. I think we can all learn from each other, and I think that’s what makes this world a beautiful place.
TS: Jessica, in Beyond the Surface, you talk about not just accepting emotions, but the power that comes when you’re able to language what emotion is occurring inside of you in a specific and nuanced way. And you also describe the intensity of emotions that you experience. And I thought that was really interesting because I have a very intense inner emotional life as well. And sometimes I think God, are there other people feeling it? Are their emotions as loud as my emotions are? And so here you are writing about that, and I’d love to know more how you’ve learned to be with the intensity of your emotional horizons.
JL: Yeah, I think for me, just sometimes I think the hardest thing that I have to overcome with my emotions and my thoughts is am I too much? Right? I think, am I too much for this world? Am I being too much with my thoughts? Am I being too much with the way that I process my life? And I am so grateful for my sister who has been such an amazing advocate in my life, and she’s been one of the best people. She also helped write this book, but I think we have to stop thinking that we’re too much because we’re human. And that’s the most beautiful thing about being human, is that we have all these thoughts that we’re just allowed to think. We can think all of these amazing thoughts, and that’s okay. And every day is different. And I think that’s something that for me as an athlete, a person, an adoptive person, a person living with a disability, especially with my legs, I never know what my day is going to look like or what I’m going to get. But I love this idea that you are not too much for this world and you are needed and wanted and loved, and your perspective matters. And I think we have to adapt this idea that you are not too much and your thoughts are so important.
TS: Well, you’re not too much for me in this conversation, in this platform, and I hope I’m not too much for you. So we’re meeting each other in and embrace and validation of a whole lot of muchness, which is wonderful. Which brings me to a question at the end of each chapter, you offer what you call a reframe, and you’ve shared with us here how these events that happened in your life going through all of these surgeries, for example, you didn’t want this to happen as you grew. You describe it in the book, you’d have to have another surgery a couple years later. I think you wrote, most kids have to buy a new pair of shoes. I had to get new fittings, an entire surgical process for my legs. And you write here in the reframe section where you ask us questions so that we can inquire into what we might need to reframe in our life when you don’t really have a choice in your circumstances, how do you use that to keep moving forward inch by inch? And I wanted to hear more about that, and especially this inch by inch ness that you discovered in your own life.
JL: Yeah. Well, first I love this idea that no matter how slow or inch by inch moving forward is the way to go. We don’t ever want to be going backwards with our stories, and I don’t know about you, but I want to look back on my life and think, wow, I used every bit of talent that I was ever given and every possibility and purpose and all of the good things that this life has to offer. But I also think it’s important to recognize that it is tough and it is hard, and how do we take our struggles and our circumstances and turn them into the best possible situations? I didn’t ask to be an amputee and an ask to be different. I just happened to be born differently. I knew from an early age that I just wanted to be the best. I think that’s one of the most beautiful parts about sharing our story is that we can all find ways to relate to each other, to connect with each other, and to hopefully make this world a better place. I love that idea, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that we want to have change and to reform.
I mean, I like making myself the best that I can be. Obviously with swimming and swimming is such a sport that you are constantly trying to do. You’re doing the same thing, but expecting a different result. But I think we can take that analogy into our daily lives that it takes these small little changes to make us the best that we can be through our circumstance.
TS: Now, you talked about how the emotion of anger, anger at your circumstances is part of what fueled you moving forward so powerfully with the kind of determination you had. And I’m also curious about the transformation and the mobilization that can come from an emotion like shame, because I think a lot of people when they feel different in some way, and I can speak from my own experience and the ways that I feel different historically, I’ve had to work through a feeling of shame around that, and it’s really hard. It’s a little different than anger. It doesn’t have that same kind of mobilization quality, and so I’d love to learn from your experience.
JL: Yeah, yeah, I think that’s such a good question. I’m definitely just processing shame can be so paralyzing, and I don’t know. I think that’s part of the anxiety, and I think a lot of people struggle with that anxiety or shame, but I think you just have to trust your decisions and your ability to be the best that you can be. I think for me, what we were talking about just being born without my legs, it can feel very shameful to be the way that I look or to love the person that you love or to want to change the world. Why not go against the status quo? I have always loved that. I love fighting rules. I definitely challenging people leadership, but I think it’s so important to just love yourself where you’re at and to give yourself grace. And I definitely, even today I talked to one of my best friends and I just said, I think it’s so interesting that shame can be such, anger is powerful. Shame can be so paralyzing, and if we can find a way to just continue to talk about it, I think so many people are so afraid to talk about their emotions or what they’re feeling, but if we can find ways or a community that feels safe to talk about, Hey, I’m angry with this situation. I’m angry, or I feel shame with this. I think that is a way that we can continue to move forward no matter what we’re feeling.
TS: Now, Jessica, since we already established that we’re both allowed to be too much, I’m going to ask you what I think is actually a very personal question. It’s an important area of discussion for me, which has to do with being a person of faith. You reference it in beneath the surface. You don’t write that much about it, but you talk about how there was a period in your life where you made a choice to be a person of faith, and I wanted to understand more about that and what happened for you.
JL: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So I think for me growing up, I was raised in a very Christian household and I’m so grateful for that. But at the same time, my parents were so wonderful in the sense that it had to be my own faith. And I think we can find our faith in what we believe in. There’s so many different outlets in this world. But for me, being part of a Christian household, I was definitely angry and I definitely right, we talk about anger in the sense that I didn’t want to be adopted into God’s family. I didn’t want to be different. I couldn’t understand why I was born different if someone who created me loved me so much. And I definitely come from a very Christian household and Christian background. But I think for me it was just really hard to accept that I was different, and why did I have to be different and not just different, but have to go through so much pain that wasn’t fair and it’s okay that it wasn’t fair, but it was hard and it was really hard to know that I was different, but on top of being different, I had to have surgeries and new legs and set the tone for the way that I wanted my life to be.
But I am so grateful that for me, it became my own faith. And I think faith is such an individual. It comes to you, it’s yours, it’s you get to decide. And for me, I’m so grateful that I just fell in love with, I’m definitely a Christian, but love Jesus and just that I’m not perfect. And I think that’s one of the most beautiful parts of it.
TS: That’s actually what I want to hear about if it’s okay.
JL: Yeah, I think sometimes people have an idea, oh, if I hear about somebody’s, and I’m going to use a word, you don’t use this word in the book, so I’m using this word, but kind of inner conversion experience. Or you could use a word like awakening, inner awakening experience and an inner awakening experience. I’m just going to keep going here and be my too much self, an inner awakening experience in relationship with Jesus and that love force that that’s very, very powerful. And I think it’s important that we’re not afraid to talk about it. So that’s why I want to understand more what happened for you. You didn’t have to make this choice. Your family wasn’t pressuring. You could have done other things. You didn’t. What happened? I think
JL: For me, I’ve been so tough my whole life. I’ve done it all on my own and not really, I thought I did it all on my own, but there was a moment when I moved out to Colorado Springs at the Olympic and Paralympic training center, and my parents’ biggest thing was Jess, we just really that you find a church that you love, and that was the biggest thing that they encouraged. But my parents were never forceful of just having a relationship with Jesus or just God or just faith or whatever. They just loved me for where I was at. But they also very much encouraged like, Hey, we think this would be super good. So it took three years for me to eventually give my heart to Christ. And I always think of it like this. I’m such a tough person and I feel like my life has been in such tight fist.
I’m ready to fight. I’m squeezing my fist and it’s hard. But there was a moment that night in June I think, is when I was like, okay, I’m tired of just, I don’t have to do it all on my own. I don’t that I just decided that was time to give my whole heart to Christ in Jesus. And it was hard and didn’t make life easier. It didn’t make it easier at all. But for me, that was my faith, and I decided to give my whole heart to Christ and just the good, the bad, the ugly, everything. Yeah.
TS: How has that impacted you? How has that affected you?
JL: Yeah, I think it’s hard. I still think I’m a fighter, that fighting person, we all have such amazing personalities and my personality is such just being a fighter, but I think it’s allowed me to fully dive into my faith and to believe that God has always had a bigger purpose than I could even imagine. But it’s not easy. I’m not the perfect Christian example. I’m like, I’m real. I mess up. I still get angry. I still have questions, I still fight. But I also know that God’s made me this way, this beautiful personality that is a fighter, and I’ve had to be a fighter, but if I can rely on him and call out to him, I think that’s one of the best parts of just who I am.
TS: Well, it’s interesting that you end each chapter in Beyond the Surface with this notion of the reframe, how to reframe things. Because in a way, you are reframing your life story, you’re reframing your life story as, I mean, if I can offer that, I dunno if that resonates with you, but there’s a sense of sort of purposefulness even in being born the way that you are instead of being against it, seeing it in a different light. Or I wonder how you would say that and describe that.
JL: Yeah, I think reform also could be just a different perspective. I think it’s so important to see your life through a different perspective or to see others’ lives and to gain that perspective. For me, it’s so interesting that I’ve always wanted to be better and competitive and enough and to be the best that I can be, but it also came through a lot of trial and error and pain and tears and hurt. I think a lot of people, even with this book get to see or you see the good parts, you see the success, but I don’t know anyone’s story who is successful without going through some trial or just hardship. And I was given up at my birth, mom was 16, I was a baby. There’s so much even that part, I could just mean we could talk this whole podcast about just adoption, but what about being an elite athlete and feeling enough an identity or disability and knowing that I wasn’t made for this world and that no matter how much I wish that I have legs, I’ll never have legs. But I love this idea of reform and challenging yourself. And I think sometimes often just we can get so caught up in our daily lives of just in and out and from the morning to night and just how do we continue to challenge ourselves to be the best
TS: 30 paralympic medals. It’s really tremendously, tremendously impressive. Impressive. And I’d love to know more. You talked some about being fueled by anger, wanting to find a sense of worth, but there’s some other sort of winning mindset, if you will, or special sauce that enabled you to be so successful. Give us a picture into that.
JL: Well, it’s actually 31.
TS: Oh, 31. Sorry about that. Thank you. I don’t want to miss that.
JL: That came as a surprise to me as well. But I think for me, it’s so wild and bizarre. I get to do these amazing podcasts to be on your podcast and to share my story, to have books written because of that success. But I think for me, I’ve always wanted to just be loved for who I am. And I think that’s why I want to be a real friend. I want you to love me for where I’m at, the good, the bad, the ugly. But I also know that this success has given me this amazing platform to share my story. And it’s so wild. I started this journey as a 12-year-old just loving or 10, but just loving the sport of swimming. I never thought that I would win. I don’t think I ever thought that I would’ve win a gold medal, let alone 18 or have 31 medals.
But those medals also, they’re hard. They’ve made me feel like I wasn’t enough. Or if even in Paris two months ago, I was like, oh my gosh, can I do it again? Will I be enough? Will I be loved? But I think each medal tells such a beautiful story of just struggle, that I’ve always wanted to just showcase the abilities that I’ve been given, the talents that God has given me. But I don’t know. It’s cool, but I don’t think I even let myself think it because I’m always thinking of the next competition. But I hope people,
TS: What is the winning mindset, Jessica? What is that? Is it determination? Are you saying something, repeating something inside as you’re swimming? What is it?
JL: Okay, so great question. I think for me, the thing that I often say before I compete is don’t you dare give up. Even if I don’t win. Not giving up is such a huge success, and I think I hope people hear my story. And even if they don’t get whatever they think that they’re going to get, just not giving up is such a huge success. But before I’m up on the block, I think the first thing I’m saying is, don’t you dare give up. You’ve done the work. But yeah, the medals are cool, but I’m so much more as a person and there’s so much more to me, but also it’s such a huge part of my life and my journey, and I definitely have always loved the color gold. But more than that, I love what Paralympics has given me.
TS: I read in Beyond the Surface that you also work with visualization before an Olympic event, but also just in your training that you’re visualizing. Tell us about that and the role you think that’s played.
JL: I think this, so my dad who’s like my favorite person, amazing, amazing guy, just taught me that when I was 12, when I first started swimming, well, I first started swimming at 10, but just that he always said, this is your secret weapon, your superpower. And the mind is so incredibly powerful. If we feed it these negative thoughts, it’s going to believe those negative thoughts. If you’re not enough or you’re just constantly thinking poorly about yourself or whatever, you’re feeding it, it is the biggest tool and machine to dictate where your life can go. And I think for me, I’ve tried to just feed it even on my worst days. I love to look in the mirror even now after all these tools that I’ve been given. It’s just, you are enough. You are loved, you are worthy. You’re going to be great. You’re going to make an impact. And it believes it. If the mind can believe it, I believe the body can achieve it. And I just try to be the best that I can be in that sense. But the mind is so much more powerful than we can ever comprehend.
TS: So the question I have for you though is I imagine that you visualize yourself creating world records and getting the gold and something like that. Yeah. Do you visualize the whole thing? Do you visualize kind of swimming, but then in the swimming context and then touching the wall? I mean, well, tell me what is it that you’re visualizing in preparation for a competition?
JL: Okay, so I think with that visualizing technique, right? You’re visualizing the start, the middle, and the end, and you also have to visualize every piece of it. So whether the race goes wrong or your suit rips or you’re choking on water, you have to be prepared. And especially, I mean, even in this life, but I can remember times at swim practice where we would literally sit on the full deck and we would go through an entire race and visualize it. And I would just remember thinking through, okay, I’m up on the block and I’m taking my legs off and about to jump in, and I’m starting, and oh, a person to my left is catching me or my person to my right, and I’m behind, but I’m catching them. I go through every single crazy scenario, and you might feel like a fool or a silly person visualizing these moments, but there’s nothing better than seeing when you can see it in your mind. It’s this idea of achieving it. And even in my life today with my husband, Lucas and I often find myself self visualizing what life do I want to have? You can take that into any area, whether it’s achieving a goal or just the life that you want to have. I often find myself just thinking and visualizing what life I want to have and all sorts of scenarios. But if you can believe it and achieve it and see it, it’s so powerful.
TS: But interestingly, you’re also going into the visualization and entertaining all the bad things that could happen, your suit, ripping, et cetera. That’s interesting. So what is the reason for doing that? To have a sense of inner preparedness?
JL: Yeah. I think you have to see it from every single perspective. Everything. Life is not easy. Life is not easy for any one of us, and I think that’s the most beautiful part of us connecting you and I just even sharing stories or talking, right? Every single person has a story and it’s worth hearing. And if we can listen to each other’s story, I think there comes compassion. I think there’s more understanding that people have different normals, they have different perspectives. But this idea that obviously I love this idea of connecting, but life is going to throw you so many curve balls, and it’s how you can pick yourself back up through it. And I think that’s why it’s so important to visualize so many different parts of your life that the good, the bad, the ugly, because that’s going to be life. I don’t know if I’m met a person yet with all of my storytelling, my speech, my public speaking through my book, just life is hard. And that’s how we’re able to connect with each other and truly connect right through our experiences and those experiences creates who we are.
TS: Now. Jessica, I love this phrase. You dare give up. I think I’m actually going to call our conversation. You dare give up. It’s so powerful. And I’m curious how you bring that into every part of your life.
JL: And it’s so hard to talk about, but I think so many people see the good of being an amputee. They see the successes and they think, wow, oh my gosh, she’s an amputee. She’s doing all these things. But my normal day could be, I could wake up tomorrow and my legs are so swollen that I just can’t even step into my legs. And that’s that constant voice in my head. You dare give up. Or putting on shoes as a amputee, no feet, that’s hard. That’s a moment You dare give up. Just going to swim practice and wanting to be the best that I could be or racing the person next to me, you dare give up standing in a crowd or walking with people who grocery shopping, all these so normal things, it’s so easy to give up or just to feel sorry for myself.
And I think in those moments of just real life toughness, I’m different. I will always be different. I don’t look like the rest of the world, and that’s okay, but don’t you dare give up has helped me immensely in the smallest of moments probably. It doesn’t have to be profound. It doesn’t have to be these major moments. It’s in those small moments that I find ways to say, don’t you dare give up. Carrying groceries in from my car into our place with my husband, that’s hard. It adds weight to me. And it’s like, you can’t give up going to the gym and seeing everyone around me on the elliptical or the treadmill, and they’re just running and doing their thing. And I’m like, okay, don’t you give up? And I think it’s a constant reminder in those toughest of moments, I find myself saying, don’t give up, or don’t you dare give up.
TS: I want to ask more about this. This is really powerful. I’m going to take this and bring it into my heart. What I noticed is there are times when I can feel challenged in some ways, much, much, much less severe than what you’re describing, but I can see there’s a collapse move. Oh, I’m just going to collapse and I don’t stay there. But it can be a move like, oh God, forget it. Forget it. This is just, and then don’t you dare give up, but I wonder what you would say to people who are listening who might have that God in this part of my life or that part of my life, I just collapse.
JL: Yeah. Well, collapsing is good because you always find a way to stand up and get back up again. Maybe sometimes we have to fall down, and I will never be the person that pretends that I’ve always had it together. There are many times I’ve collapsed or I’ve struggled, or I’ve struggled to even find a way to get back up. But I love this idea that for me, one of the biggest things that I can look back on my life is there’s been moments of doubt or struggle and say, I’m doing pull-ups and my exercise on my sheet, or my workout is like 10 pull-ups, and I’m like, I can’t even do 10 because normal, it’s human to think, how can I do this? And I think I love this idea of that. If I have a moment of doubt, it’s like, okay, well, let’s go one step further.
Let’s prove to yourself that even though you thought that initial 10 pull-ups was hard, do 11. And that’s something I’ve just adapted. And maybe that’s my personality, and I hope someone even listening to this can adapt their mindset to Wait 10, pull-ups sound impossible. Let’s do 11. Every time I have a moment of doubt, I try to always push it one step further because I think it’s habits. If we can create these habits of doubting yourself, but also pushing yourself, you’re just out to be successful and whatever your success is, I love that idea of feeling like, oh my gosh, I can’t do this. But now I have to.
TS: Now, you mentioned that one possibility was that we could talk about adoption quite a bit because it’s a topic that is really important to you. And in Beyond the Surface, you describe the opportunity that emerged for you to meet your biological mom and your sister to go to Russia. And I wonder if you can describe that experience to our listeners and how it impacted you.
JL: Yeah, so many things. There’s so many parts that we could even get down to, but just I think for me, I knew I was adopted from a young age. I knew that I was different. I knew that I looked different. I knew that I was born with the name Tatiana. I knew a lot of that stuff. But I think for me, I never thought that I would meet my birth family at the age of 21. I thought that would come much later in life. But I ended up going and meeting her when I was 21, and NBC followed my journey back to Russia, and my little sister, Hannah came with me. But it’s so many emotions that it’s just so hard to process just how hard that could be, but also so beautiful. I think for me, there was definitely moments where I felt like just I hope she’s proud of me. I hope she loves me. I hope she knows that my life was worth it. But more than anything, just you, it was probably the bravest thing I’ve ever done. And I hope by it’s that ripple effect that if you can see someone doing something brave, maybe you can do something brave. But it was hard.
I never thought that I would meet her at such a young age, but I think, well, I hope that shows just how incredibly strong and brave that I was. And if it wasn’t for swimming or just even finding a way, I had become a Christian very about a year before I met my birth mom. Just that idea of forgiveness. Forgiveness is so powerful. And whether or not you are a Christian or belief, whatever you are, wherever you’re at, wherever we can meet you, forgiveness is powerful and it just lifts weight off of your shoulders. And I think for me, when I met my birth mom, I just knew that I forgave her. And I’ll never forget that she just couldn’t forgive herself for giving me up. And I was like, I love you. For where it’s so important to meet people for where they’re at.
TS: Do you have a sense that your forgiveness of her helped her forgive herself?
JL: I hope so. I think she definitely, with translation, it was really hard, and I definitely hurt a lot that she just couldn’t forgive herself. And something she kept saying was just like, she talks a lot about just how animals couldn’t forgive, would never leave their kids, and there’s that animal instinct, but I was like, I love you. I am good. I am here. I love you. I’m showing up. But yeah, I think it takes a lot of work and practice and forgiveness is truly one of the most beautiful ways to just show love.
TS: How did that forgiveness bubble up in you? Was it a thinking process, or would it just come upon you, or how did that happen? Because you talked about how much anger you had previously as a young person.
JL: Yeah, I think for me, it’s so important to see life from the other perspective. My whole life, I was so angry with her. She left me. She didn’t want me, she didn’t care about me. But as soon as you can change that perspective to me, to her, I started to see her perspective. Maybe she didn’t want to give me up. Maybe that was one of the most selfless, most beautiful acts of love that I could ever imagine that that’s what she did. Trying to see the world through her eyes and the lens that she, as a young 16-year-old girl, I mean, I’m 32, I couldn’t imagine having a daughter at 16 or a girl half my age at this point. But I think it’s all about that perspective and perspective comes with age. But thinking about it through her viewpoint, that that was actually so beautiful that she, well, obviously I’m so grateful that I’m here and that I’m alive, but also just seeing the world through her perspective, that even though I was a disabled baby, she still chose to love me. And she said she had always thought about me through even my birthday. I am a leap year baby. And she would talk about years later, she wrote me and she was like, I always wonder what day you celebrated your birthday on, whether it was February 29th or March 1st. And I think that was one of the coolest things.
TS: You dare give up. One of the things you ask people is what would you set your sights on doing if you didn’t let fear get in the way, and then you help people break it down into small steps, you can take step by step. So I wonder if you can talk some about, because I think that’s so important. People have these dreams that they’ve abandoned or have never acted upon, and you’re here encouraging us to break it down into actual take one inch by inch.
JL: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think first and foremost, it’s so important to figure out what do you want to do? Just figure out what you want to do. The scariest, biggest thing, ambitions, everything. What sounds impossible? I think that’s one of the coolest things. What sounds too good to be true? And then I think you take that moment and you just think, how can I get there? And what could I do? What resources do I have? What networks? How could I make this into reality? And you almost just have to get over the word, the fear, the word no. Right? I kind of like the word my whole life, I’ve loved the word no. Like, okay, how do I say yes? It’s such a challenge, and it does take time to find your ambitions and your goals, but I think most people, if we were all sat in a room and we all just strangers imagine, it was like, what is your biggest goal? And people are just so true with their goals and their ambitions, and imagine if we could help each other with just go for it. I think encouragement is so important, just encouraging your fellow friends or colleagues or family, whoever is in your life, you have to have that confidence to go for it. But I think first and foremost, you have to figure out what you want to achieve and not be afraid of that fear and say, oh my God, if I have fear, if I’m scared of this thing, it must be right.
TS: You have this sentence that I pulled out from Beyond the Surface because I liked it so much about helping us identify this purpose, this thing we want to do. We each need to find that thing that makes quitting impossible for us. And I thought, that’s really brilliant. What would I just not quit? I cannot quit this. So I thought it was a wonderful question, so thank you for that.
JL: I think it’s that thing that just keeps popping up in random parts of your life or different seasons of your life. What is that thing that you just can’t stop thinking about? Oh, I should have done that, right? And how often do we hear of people going for it and being successful and others being like, oh, I thought of that invention first. Or, oh, yeah, that makes sense. How do we figure out fear? And this idea that we just went for it without stopping ourselves from being successful? And success can look different for everyone, and it can be scary, but I definitely never want to live my life with regrets. And I think that’s something, even as a 3-year-old, I’m like, what would I be regretting right now? I’m like, okay, I have an opportunity right now. I’m young. What would I say if I’m older on my deathbed? Like, oh, I regret that I’m here now I have the opportunity to make change. So always trying to think of that making change and to be the best version of myself.
TS: Okay. Just have a couple more questions for you. One, I developed this curiosity about your sisterhood with Hannah, who helped you both write Beyond the Surface as the person that went with you when you went to Russia to meet your birth mom. And I thought to myself, they have a very special relationship. I’d love to feel into that more.
JL: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, that will be the thing. Yeah, Hannah, yeah, she’s my, well, I love Lucas, but she’s my favorite person in the entire world. I love her to death. I think there’s nothing more beautiful than just a sister relationship, and I’m so grateful. My parents very much facilitated just this idea that my sisters were my best friends. I have four sisters, but Hannah was a person that felt safe, and I think that’s a huge thing. She was so safe to me, and with what I struggled with, or my deepest fears or my inner thoughts or anything, that was just hard, right? Hannah was always there and she listened. And that’s such a rare, obviously, it’s such a beautiful thing to find someone who can just listen and you can’t take advantage of that person. And I’m so grateful. She was my sister, but Hannah was a very safe place, but she was also a place that just allowed me to be myself.
And for so long, I felt like myself wasn’t worthy, right? I felt like there was so much shame with myself, or just the way that I was, or the way that I looked, or the way that I was half of a person because I didn’t have my legs, right? Hannah was the miracle baby. She came on my parents, it’s actually so cute, but she came on my parents’ anniversary. She was the miracle baby, but Hannah was such a safe place, and I think it’s so important if you can find that safe person. But yeah, I think she’s one of the best people I’ve ever known in my entire life, and one of my, literally, she’s my little sister, but someone I love to death. I
TS: Finally, Jessica, you are going to compete in the 2028 Paralympics in Los Angeles. It’s going to be your last competitive arena. Tell me what your thoughts are as you look ahead to that and what goals you have and how you see it, and how you see having it be your final competitive, John.
JL: Oh my goodness. Well, first I do want to show you, we talked about this prior, but this is my people from Paris, so amazing. This is a piece of the Eiffel Tower and okay, I mean, they’re thick, they’re heavy. This is, yeah.
TS: Yeah. Beautiful. Amazing.
JL: But I think for me, I think Paris is such an important moment where it’s just like I had a lot of doubt in myself is can I win another gold medal? Can I do it again? It’s my sixth Paralympic. I’m allowed to feel tired. I’m allowed to not be successful. I’ve done it for so long. So LA for me will be the farewell. I don’t think it’s settled in yet because I’m still celebrating Paris. But I think the biggest thing and something we’re trying to work on right now is getting my birth mom and Natalia to be in the stands with my mom, Beth, to be next because they’ve never met. I think LA will be incredible. And I think for me, it’s a place that I want the Paralympics to be so well known. I think still people, it’s got some work to do, and we’re so far ahead and we’ve got people like Toyota and Arena, and so Omega, so many people are so on board with the Paralympics, which is only, that was my biggest dream.
But we have work to do, and I think la, especially for the United States, is going to be such a pivotal moment of what we’re capable of as Paralympic athletes, the stories, everything. But yeah, I, I don’t think I can comprehend it because I started as a little girl who loved the sport, and I’m going to end it as a hopefully mom at that point. We don’t have kids yet, but swimming has completely changed my life in the best way and given me such a beautiful confidence to hopefully be that confident girl who changes others’ lives.
TS: When you say the Paralympics still have work to do, what are you referencing?
JL: Yeah, I think, right, when we talk about just even equality with men and women or women’s sports, right? Women’s sports still are trying to gain just momentum to move forward and have people watch. Well, then you take it a step further with Paralympics and disability, and it’s worth watching. It’s, it’s competitive, it’s amazing. It’s beautiful. But I want the Paralympics to be just as popular as any able-bodied sport. And that means that we got to get people to watch it and to understand it and know the stories. And it’s so much power in the Paralympics, and that’s all you ever hear, right, is we love the stories of the Olympics, but could you imagine, I mean, you’re hearing my story, but there’s a thousand more stories in the Paralympics that are so beautiful and powerful and motivating, and I want the US to know that firsthand because I feel like we’re still a little bit behind, and I think LA is going to be the perfect opportunity where people are just so on board with all that we have to offer.
TS: I’ve been speaking with Jessica Long. She’s the author of the new book Beyond the Surface: A Gold Medalist’s Guide—31 Medals, 31—A Gold Medalist’s Guide to Finding and Loving Yourself, and also a children’s book with Sounds True, The Mermaid with No Tail. Jessica, great to be with you and to connect. Thank you.
JL: Thank you, thank you. Wonderful.
TS: And if you’d like to watch Insights at the Edge on video and participate in the after-show Q&A session with our guests, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community featuring award-winning original shows, live classes, community learning, guided meditations and more with the leading wisdom teachers of our time. Use promo code PODCAST to get your first month free. You can learn more at join.soundtrue.com. Sounds True: waking up the world.
