UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT: The following transcript may contain typographical errors or other mistakes due to inconsistencies in audio quality, background noise, or other factors. We cannot guarantee its precision or completeness. We encourage you to use this as a supplement to your own notes and recollection of the session.
Tami Simon: In this episode of Insights at the Edge, my guest is Cyndi Dale, an internationally renowned author, speaker, healer, business consultant. She’s the author of over 30 books about energy medicine, intuition, and spirituality. She is a very creative thinker and creative educator. She’s worked with over 80,000 clients and students and presented hundreds of seminars and workshops worldwide. With Sounds True, she published a classic book called The Subtle Body: An Encyclopedia of Your Energetic Anatomy. Now, she brings this model of the subtle body and she applies it to not just healing, inherited trauma from our family lineages, but understanding our lives now and how to create future lives so that we become, in Cyndi’s words, “our own best ancestors.”
Her new book is called Transforming the Legacy: The Subtle Body Approach to Honor and Heal Your Inherited Lineage. It’s a book that I have to say, it kind of cracked open my mind, and I’m so happy, Cyndi, to be here talking with you about it.
Cyndi Dale: Hi, Tami.
TS: Welcome. Hi.
CD: I’m thrilled to be here. I think we all need our minds and these days our hearts cracked open a little bit too, don’t we?
TS: Indeed. You know right from the first pages, you start Transforming the Legacy talking about seeing a photograph when you were a young person. Tell us that story. What happened?
CD: It’s really one of the highlights of my life, to be honest. I grew up and I still live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and we would travel way too many times every year to see my mother’s family in Watford City, North Dakota, which is pretty much off the end of the universe. And you know, get in this station wagon and vie for space. And one of the times we went, my grandmother Marie, pre and North dog, had just put out a picture of her deceased sister. And I looked at that photograph and I said, out loud. That is me. I can’t remember if I said that was me or that is me.
But the idea was I have been that person and you know, of course my family scoffed but later I knew it had been me. I knew I had been that person. Later I did a deep dive using a form of hypnotherapy and I remembered being the sister and it who had died. When she was 18, she was going to come over to from the old country Norway to the new country America with Marie. And she died. And so many of my issues, Tami, were caught up in that. And it sounds a little funny, but she got my man. Marie got the man Olaf that I had been slotted to marry and I’d never liked my grandmother. I mean, we had this, you know, sort of an antagonistic relationship from the get go. And so as I unpack that, I also realized, wait a minute, I’m not the only person who has been my own ancestor.
So many of us in the reincarnation cycle do come in with the same soul, family, and bloodline. And it was interesting with that picture years ago when my grandmother died and my mother died, I got the picture, put it in my house. And my oldest son, who not into the woo very much, except that he likes it when I buy him the things that he wants without telling me what he wants. He said, mom, you look just like her. She looks just like you. So it that it is a crack of a mind. Like who have we been? Who else maybe are we, you know, how else can we map history from what issues we have to work through, but also reactivating the positives.
So we stand, you know, we stand at the horizon and we can do a little bit more creating about moving forward.
TS: In Transforming the Legacy you bring forward quite a bit of science, quantum physics, other discoveries from science to paint a picture of how our past, present, and future lives are existing now in a way that I have to say I felt quite uncomfortable. I was like, wait a second. What’s going on here? I’m, you know, uncomfortable, meaning I just it blew open any sense I had of past, present, future. So I wonder if you can share, how do you see us living past, present, future now?
CD: Well, the most modern theories of time and space are rather they are scary and they do kind of leave you sometimes, for me anyway, feeling a little crazy. There’s string theory. There’s something called quantum loop gravity. There’s all these fancy names that are suggesting that at the simplest way that there’s these tiny one dimensional strings, we can’t see those. They’re teeny, teeny tiny subatomic waves and they interconnect all aspects of us. They interconnect us to elsewhere. And if we just operate. You know, kind of like through that lens, there really isn’t a past, a present and a future because those teeny tiny little strings, which are quantum, are interconnecting me to who I’ve been. They’re connecting me to maybe other planes I currently dwell on.
Quantum physics suggests that there’s many parallel realities or many worlds that are concurrent. They’re kind of different theories, but they’re very similar and suggests that there really isn’t a future. There’s these potentialities that kind of come back toward us that if we’re aware of, we can maybe choose certain paths to go down, and then the other ones can start to collapse. So, we really are here, there, there’s a wonderful story. It’s from a book from Petru Popescu called Amazon Beaming. It is a true story about a National Geographic photographer who, before we found the source of the Amazon, went to take pictures to find the source of the Amazon.
And he was captured very gently by a group of tribal people in Brazil. And he traveled with them and they told him that they wanted to go back to the source of the river because they entered time wrong, they entered on linear time and they wanted to go back in and enter on all time. And they approach and reach the source of the Amazon, and there’s a flash flood. He’s swept onto the sands. He wakes up, he looks around, and there’s no bodies, there’s no people. They’re disappeared. And he hears the voice of the shaman of the tribe say, we made it. And I think it’s, I think it’s nerve wracking to think about time being one time or collapse.
The Jewish Kabbalah actually speaks in many ways about that, or Jewish mysticism, you know, that it’s all here. But our bodies have two neurological systems. We have the digital, which is linear, which is what we’re all trained to be comfortable of. Hey, I had a past life. Even if you go weird enough to go past lives, I had a past life. I died, now I’m here. Right? I’m going to die and then go into the future. But we also have a neurological system called analog.
It’s more like what we call dream time or across time where we’re interconnected to nature and the heavens. And so many scriptures were written from that place of God walked in the garden where one with the gods the clouds are beings that I, we have access to that cross time in our most ancient, archaic neurology, which has been proven to be part of our neurological system.
I just think, as you know, Tami, when you go through the real world of today, especially the West, we’re not, you know, we’re not affiliated with that. You know, if we tell our mom, I had a dream, grandpa showed up in it, she’s going, well, that’s a really nice dream. You must have seen a picture in an album of grandpa because you’ve never met him. But we have it inside of us.
TS: Well, this is what I want to get into a little bit here at the beginning by starting with this photograph of what you described as a past life and yet in Transforming the Legacy you share about parallel lives that you’ve had. And I wonder how you make sense of past and parallel when you get an image of someone else that you are.
CD: Well, it’s semantics because I think they’re really all concurrent. So what I would call past is concurrent because my soul. Crosses through all times and spaces. One of the quantum theories is called loop quantum gravity. It’s interesting and it’s really picturesque. It has these little igloos that the scientists don’t call ’em igloos, but think a little igloos with little lines connecting them.
And every event we have gone through or are going through or could is like a space is the igloo and the little rods connecting. All these igloos are said to be time. So we’re in the entire fabric constantly. It’s more how we shift our focus to think, oh, I’m in this igloo being Cyndi Dale, right. Wearing a mustard shirt in, you know, I mean with Miss Scarlet in the drawing room, or I’m in that other lifetime in Norway.
I think it’s how we move our consciousness, and many of us don’t have a lot of control over our consciousness. The parallel lives are, those were very real when I remembered them. Just as, when I remember a future life you could say, and or a past life. They have all felt very concrete to me. So I think of them as con contemporary, and I’m going through them, but I can’t live that way.
It’s crazy making: How am I going to get my bathroom cleaned? Right? Thinking about taking out the cows in Norway. I can’t do it all. I just, I don’t want to. So I focus right now, which ecker totally and a lot of people tell us to do in the now. Sometimes that misses that We’re. You know, we also have to focus to be in this space because they’re sort of different ideas and, but the bo the positives for me and of being able to shift is we have a gift maybe we can reaccess and use right now in a parallel or concurrent self.
Or we can show up in a, you know, for a future self who’s going to need us. So I think it’s like playing a piano. We’ve got all these keys. Why would we limit ourselves to the octave, you know, to the right and the octave to the left of middle seat? I think it’s too though, about being able to be very aware of the here and now.
Because I’ve got kids, I have a grand baby for goodness sake, you know, they don’t care. If I remember a parallel life while I’m, you know, sitting in a baseball field or holding, feeding my grand baby, they don’t care. And so there’s a real. Positive and being able to focus and then shift if it’s going to be useful, if it’s going to be for escapism, that’s not a very good idea.
That’s not a great reason to shift, you know, like, I’m going to forget about here and now I’m going to forget about my bills. And just remember when I was rich 5,000 years ago. That’s not going to, that’s not going to cut it right now.
TS: Right. Well let, sticking with this grounded type of approach, which I really appreciate, Cyndi, which is a lot of people are interested in Transforming the Legacy in looking at an inherited family pattern that’s really painful in difficult, that carries a wound. And I’m wondering your thoughts about how to address that wound and if there’s some understanding of, oh, this could be a parallel life, if that helps in some way in terms of shifting the patterning.
CD: It can help because it empowers us in the here and now. So if, and I’ve done that work considering with, you know, with my mother, my grandparents, my father, thinking, you know, what is wounding me at some level, maybe is currently happening and if I’m empowered right here and now to use forgiveness, you know, or to send them or have healing sent to them or make a different philosophy out of the wounding.
And or come to a higher place of understanding or just playing, feel the feelings and let ’em go. So I’m not carrying them for decades. We have more choices. I think. I love your point. If we think of it, Hey, let me treat it like it’s right now, but I’m coming at it with more maturity. I’m coming at it with what I’ve learned.
I can come at it with guidance. I can come at it with my intuition and my mind simultaneously, you know, and I can create changes and I can offer changes to those souls as well. What sometimes what mainly happens, and I’m really into polyvagal theory and all these ideas about the epigenome holding the chemicals of our ancestors, and that impacts us.
We’re left so dry, we’re like, oh my gosh, I’m born with 250 types of these chemical soups that have ancestors codes and memories, and. Dead, DNA and dead RNA and all this stuff, and they are triggered by life and I have no I have no power over that. So what am I going to do? I just keep repeating or I just become grandmother over and over again.
I like the idea of the parallel being, being, you know, sort of where we can have a place of power because you can change things. Subtle quantum physics says, you know, there’s all these unlimited choices and when you focus, or at least when at least two people focus or two beings focus things disappear and something new can come.
So quantum physics gives us the map for shift how you see things, shift your perspective. And there can be a rearrangement even in physical matter because most. Of what we see, we’re not seeing it’s really subtle energy. The tiniest bit of it is physical, but everything’s vibrating. Everything’s basically quanta or things we don’t understand yet. So you change the underneath and you can change what’s on top too.
TS: Alright, now there’s so much in this new book and I started with part of the really quote unquote, far out part. But what you do is you take the energetic anatomy from the 12 chakra system that you’ve articulated, and we’re going to go into that a little bit because I think it’s really brilliant and that in some ways more accessible even than what we’ve been talking about. You also go into meridians and you go into the energy flows inside the human body. And then you talk about the human aura and how all of this links to our ability to heal our family lineages and create our future. We’ll start with the 12 chakra system because I think a lot of people are familiar with seven chakras, but you’re like, hold on, wait a second. 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, and I found 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 to be intuitively accessible to me, which I thought was like, well that’s terrific. I kind of see what she’s saying here. How did you come up with this model?
CD: Well, primarily when I was a kid, I saw chakras, so I didn’t know there were seven. I didn’t know they were called chakras. And in a White Wonder Bread, Lutheran family, I wasn’t even supposed to be seeing them anyway. So, I saw ’em, I saw colors and they were pretty standardized according to the seven that most people work with that emanate from the spine. But, you know, I saw pink around people’s hands and I saw brown, this chakra that’s brown underneath the feet.
And I saw gold way up there. And you know, interestingly enough, I never forgot it. And I’m like, why aren’t we working with this? When I found out the word chakras when I was in my twenties. And you know, even the idea of seven is a misnomer. We got that idea from John Woodroffe’s book, Serpent Power, first of all, and that just went everywhere.
It’s a Hindu model. He says there’s six by the way, not seven. And he also says in the book, but there’s dozens of systems in India and I do have a book that’s a thousand pages. The second half are energy systems from around the world. There’s nothing standard about seven. It can be 42. I’m just making up numbers. It can be three, it can be five. So I went with it because I saw them as a kid and because I wasn’t being told. You know, this is the number, or this is how many to see. I just sort of think it’s kind of destiny you know, like to at least advance the, you know, the energy system world a little bit by adding some of these out body chakras, which show up in other systems in different places in the world too.
So I’ve been doing a lot more research on that and found wow, that a lot of these places have a little eight chakra above the head. There’s a Cherokee system with an eight chakra, you know, in the neck. So it’s not brand new, it’s just my numerical system is sort of unique to what I saw as a kid.
TS: And can you just briefly introduce us to eight through 12 so people know what you’re talking about in your system.
CD: Yes, because I love them. I’m with you. Like, wow, let’s just work with these. The eighth is like a little dot over the head, black or silver, and it’s our shaman portal. It literally opens to time and space and journeying into different realms.
The ninth is gold. It’s about an arm’s length over the head. That’s sort of a higher chakra. It has codes we need for who we are to be in this life. It’s a harmonic chakra. Many systems have that one kind of as an over spirit or an overs soul chakra.
The 10th chakra sometimes in other systems is called the earth star chakra. Like in the hara system. It’s underneath the ground about two feet, and it’s our grounding, it’s our ancestral portal. We can connect our ancestors to the earth, to other places and spaces in the cosmos as you can with the eighth.
The 11th is in the field. It’s around the hands and the feet. It’s. Oh it’s a cool one. It’s a commanding chakra and I’ve met shamans who command the weather or command psychic surgery or command a tumor to shrink. That’s very much The 11th chakra.
I think of the 12th, is very unique to each of us is sort of out there. It’s easiest to connect to typically in the middle of our heart chakra. And it just is very transpersonal and personal to who we are too.
TS: When you have us approach using this system to work with transforming our family lineage, you say, okay, we’re going to start with the 10th. We’re going to go underground because, and you say this ancestral chakra exists preconception.
CD: Yes.
TS: And so I had a moment where I was like, okay, preconception, there’s a chakra that’s going to be part of me. Help our listeners understand that.
CD: Okay, well I’m going to borrow from meridian therapy, then come back to chakra therapy. Okay. In many traditional Chinese medical systems, there is a a doorway between what’s going to be the kidneys is called the Ming Men doorway that’s open preconception. And through it flows, guess what? They call it ancestral chi, our ancestors energies. And it’s a bit of a downer because the theory is whatever you get from your ancestors, the door closes when you’re conceived. And that’s it. Good luck, fortune longevity, illness, whatever. So the idea is similar with the 10th chakra. It’s the ground chakra. And there we’re very busy preconception. Here’s our soul. And it’s what do we wanna get done? What’s going to make the most sense, you know, to have activated from our ancestral bed, from our, the sperm, from the egg, from the this and from the that. And so the 10th chakra goes online in the preconception to really sort of help with that sorting for what we call the epigenome, which is the ancestors chemicals that we’re, we’ve been seeing when those get triggered by events inside of us or outside of us, the whole time we’re living, it can turn genes on and off, or create different emotional or physical illnesses or reactions, positive or negative. So it’s very much part of, it’s an ancestral chakra. So I think of it as our soul is sitting there going little more, little bit more grandma oh, Cyndi Dale had an ancestor who was hung for witchcraft hundreds of years ago. Let’s stir a few more of those gifts in the pot. Because, you know, she can help heal the family by not getting hung for a witchcraft, for being intuitive. So it’s kind of a cauldron where a lot of these chemicals get selected.
TS: You know, sometimes I feel out of sync when I’m trying to bring my left brain to some of these questions and trying to understand things. But Cyndi, I’m going to continue nonetheless, which is, I’m trying to understand from your perspective. What reincarnates? What is it? Like, is it patterning from these previous lives? Like what is it like when you say there’s this cauldron? What’s entering the cauldron preconception? And then also when you say preconception, how long before conception takes place is this chakra in formation? Maybe you can help me here.
CD: Well, I’m not sure I’ll help. I might complicate things more. What the construct that makes the most sense to me, I’ll go there. We have a spirit, which I think of it as more our immortal essence. This always connected into the oneness. There’s a lot of interesting new science suggesting the universe really is a divine intelligence based on love. It stores data across what we call time and space, interestingly, in geometric forms. And so our spirit is interconnected and knows that. But that’s not a very easy way to have experience, is just to be all fluffy all the time. So the soul is sort of like a little part of our spirit. It can have experiences and with experiences come misperceptions as well as teachings about love or relationship and who we are and how to be creative.
And so at the simplest level, I believe that what is reincarnating is the soul. But the soul has many facets. So you could even see the soul is sort of fountain into a lot of different places and spaces sort of simultaneously. You know, I’m going over there. We’re here and over here, we’re there, and you know, I’m here and let’s all share this knowledge.
So we learn whatever it is we’re wisdom gathering about, which ultimately is going to be some kind of teaching about love and interconnectivity. And I know that sounds lame, but it’s very solid. I think in our feeling base too, so at least some part of the soul is incarnating in experience.
And we like our linear minds. Like to think that just before Cyndi Dale’s lifetime, before she’s going to be born you know, maybe. A minute before, or a year before, or as soon as their parents need, or as soon as the IVF has started or whatever it might be, you know, that my soul, that part of my soul that’s going to come in is on it.
But it, we don’t exclusively map lifetime to lifetime. That’s sort of what can go sticky and get chaotic is I’ve had experiences with clients where there’s like this terrain that shifts, like somebody might plan, oh, I’m going to be, I’m Cyndi and I’m going to be that ancestor who’s not really supposed to die, and then I’m also going to come and be Cyndi to these parents.
But it’s like something screws up and that can impact, you know, how that’s going to impact another incarnation. I think we might plan several lifetimes all at the same time. And I. But we think in such linear ways. There was a researcher, I think, I can’t remember the, one of the men’s names, but Joel Whitten, and he researched a lot with, I think the man who did the writing a lot was Joe Fisher.
Now this stuff came out in the seventies and the eighties. Interesting research though. They did regressions with people who had situations that they did not like in their lives. Brought them back to a preconception state, which is sort of like what some call a bardo. It’s sort of a timeless state where they were making agreements about what would happen in the lifetime they were in.
And many times when somebody understood, oh, I was going to have this event because I can learn this from it, they kept the situation. They didn’t want it changed when certain of those people, didn’t want to learn the lesson, the hard way. Their problems disappeared. The cancer would disappear.
And you know, so, so there’s this dynamic about wisdom gathering that I think is what we’re really exploring and what we’re really on. And so we may map several lifetimes out, but then I do believe things can go awry. I don’t think this is a perfect place. I think it’s very chaotic. You know, so then we move more decisions around, you know, to try to adapt.
TS: When you work with a client, Cyndi, do you have a sense I’m encountering their past life now? I’m encountering a future life now.
CD: Yes.
TS: I’m encountering a parallel life now. How do you experience each of those differently?
CD: So I am a very strong linear thinker. I love systems and structures. So even though I understand everything’s kind of like a big mess in the same Kleenex box, like in the same playpen, I get that they look different. I mean, literally my brain will interpret a past life with them wearing clothing of a different time period. Or just to go way back. It could be a different world or a different planet. And I get that sense of the colors or how the beings are interacting. A parallel reality. I can tell even I work mainly on the phone with my clients, but I have a sense of their current self. Like I can sense it empathically, like there’s a tone to who they are. There’s an image I have of them that may not even be about their physicality. There’s colors that I know about them. There’s a. Feeling of their organic self and a parallel reality will often be it’s them, but they, but I know they look different, maybe a different situation that they’re involved in altogether.
And the future always has this sort of wispiness in it. You know, oh, I’m going forward rather than backward. Backward is history. Forward is, you know, future to the side is right now. So I even do a spatial exploration, and it’s very interesting. I work with clients who don’t even believe in this stuff.
Like oftentimes their spouse sends them like, you gotta have a session, you gotta do this. Years ago I worked with the man, he called me, he was a plumber, and goes I can’t seem to make money and I have nightmares every night. My, my wife is forcing me to call you. And I go, okay.
So I just saw this whole story from what different clothing, castle, prince, this whole drama that ensued with a brother and the king and the brother got the, you know, storyline and jealousy and all this kind of stuff. And I said, this is all I’m seeing. I think it’s a past life and you can relate to it as a story to see if it means anything in your life. And he said, how did you know that story?
I go, I see it. And he goes, I’ve had that dream my entire life. And it played out exactly like that with my father who first owned the plumbing company. And my brother, who’s mad at me because I got the plumbing company. And so we just did some rearrangement and he started making money at his plumbing company.
So I think people are innately intuitive about who they are and can stretch into, I can see myself having been that parallel realities are a little more challenging for people. I have a client having this entire parallel reality that she’s living in right now while she’s living her current life.
And she doesn’t like it because it’s, it just crosses your brain. Strange. Future stuff. I’ll give you an example of future. I was working with a client in my office today. I only do that once a week. And it was so fun because our future kind of tends to come from afar and then enter the field.
So talk about the energy field. It tends to come in and then finally it lands in the physical self or in the body. And she brought up a dream she had, and before she said the dream, I was like, you just dreamt that your, one of your daughters got married. I can, I said, I can see it in your energy field. I can see it. We had the same image of the man. The daughter might meet and marry. And I say might because things. Can we have free will? Or I hope we do. Sometimes we do. But it was in the field, so there’s a placement to things too.
TS: I’m curious, speaking of placement. When someone has an issue and they come to you and they say, you know, God, here’s the thing that’s holding me back. I know it’s in my family lineage. It’s this or that patterning. Do you see it in one of the 12 chakras? Is that…?
CD: Usually I see it in a chakra, and the auric fields are just, to me, extensions of the chakras. So if I see it in a field, I know which chakra it’s in. If I see it in a chakra, I know which fields it in it.
TS: Can you explain that for people who are like, What are you talking about here, Cyndi?
CD: So chakras are just chakras are simply, we’re 99.99% subtle energy, which is just energy information that moves and it can move faster than the speed of light. It can move slower than the speed of light. It can stand still, it can do, it still vibrates, but it can do whatever it is it’s going to do.
But most of us we’re just, and we are made of. Mainly subtle fields of light and sound, and just like the physical body has organs, liver, heart channels, lymph, cardiovascular, and fields, which you can see pictures of on the internet. We give off fields of energy. Everything gives off a field of energy.
The subtle body has the same basic organizational structure. The organs are the chakras. We call them subtle energy centers or subtle energy, you know, organs. And some of them are most firmly based, more in the body and emanate out. The ones that are the top five I like to work with are more based outside, but they still in, they still land in the body in an endocrine gland.
And so like physical organs, they emanate fields of energy. And what we typically have come to call the auric field, which is just part of your energy field are simply the fields that come off the chakras. So the chakras are like the brains of the subtle body. They’re memory keepers. They store our patterns.
Patterns are based on programs. It’s actually very logical to be honest. It’s like, here’s the programs, those make the patterns and that shares data with the world and the world responds accordingly. So, it, I wish it were that simple, but it is at some level. So the fields are sort of the us outside of us that’s interfacing more thoroughly with the external world, though they’re still just extensions of what’s in us.
And the chakras are sort of the brains that are really emanating those programs or those patterns. And so. It’s lovely to be able to work with a chakra because you can go, oh, here’s the program, this creating this pattern. What if we change the program, we change the pattern, we change the field, and maybe reality can shift for that person.
TS: Change the program, change the pattern. You know, it sounds, you know, you know, like we’re flipping a switch or something. I think for a lot of people in their lives, they’ve spent years in therapy trying to, or journaling or their own inquiry, trying to change certain programs and patterns. Here in the book, you take us through lots of different inner work practices we can do, and I think what’s interesting is just to share a little bit, because you said you like structure, you do.
And these arcs of meaning and effectiveness of the process you take people through. You start by having us start in what you call, the God spot. And I thought this was so interesting because I also think this is very accessible actually to people. So explain where does someone find their God spot?
CD: Well, and I use the word God on purpose no matter what people think of religion. Okay? Very center of the heart chakra. It’s not the really technically the heart chakra. It’s in the middle of it. And many cultures have a center heart space and typically also that part of the subtle body and the physical body. Very powerful, very potent. And it tends to be the center of the physical body, and it tends to be the center of the subtle body as well. So it’s just inside the heart chakra. It’s a chamber. Sometimes I call it the divine chamber. The way I like to explain it is it’s where that. Your essence is always, you know, interconnected with whatever you call divine intelligence.
It’s like our it’s like it’s all easy in here and we’re interconnected and change can create, you know, be created far simpler than when we’re in the brain or struggling, you know, with, but you can’t move a mountain. Well, maybe you don’t need to move a mountain. Maybe you go around the mountain, or whatever it is.
So it’s just in the middle. I like to describe it, however, as having a cell, like a molecule or the cell of the divine, whatever we would call the divine intelligence. You know, the god, the oneness the that, that’s bigger than all of us. That is about love. We have a unique cell inside of us because with that, knowing when we’re doing meditative exercises, creative visualization sounding, just asking for help.
When we need to ask for help we can get physiological change as well as psychological and spiritual. A lot of times when people are doing energy work, I find Tami, they’re doing, they don’t know it, but they’re doing higher chakra stuff. They’re not in the body, you know what I mean? They’re just sort of flying around out there.
How are you going to bring what you do out there into the body? You gotta work through the body and intuition is based in the body. We’re body based while we’re walking this plane. So that’s the God spot. I do everything through there. It’s very simple and it works as a place to center.
TS: I wonder if we could go through an example and maybe take, like, let’s pick a Transforming the Legacy pattern that someone’s inherited. Maybe it’s something where somewhere in their family you know, pick one Cyndi that you see as common that really is hard for people to let go of.
CD: Poverty. Whatever you wanna call it. It’s very common. It’s very common. Un you know, great uncle lost the farm. You know, great grandma was destitute, you know, so and so came home from the war and everybody stole, you know, kind of his, you know, earnings from him. It’s really common when people start to talk about, I have I always have more debt than I have income.
I can’t get a decent job. I hear it every single day. I might do five to eight clients, you know, on an average day, and at least two to three of them are like, I’m stuck. I can’t get my career going. I never make enough to really make it. You know, or literally, I have no money. I just don’t. So that inheritance, I’ll talk it through where it usually relates to too, because it can be very chakra based.
Each chakra has its own job. It’s on a bandwidth of energy, so it’s, it brings in energy that matches it, and it sends out messages according to its bandwidth. Any money issue is going to be first chakra. First Chakra is typically seen as red. It’s in the hips. Every shocker develops at a different time in a lifetime.
That one develops in the womb to six months. So it’s imprinted perhaps by past lives, but it’s really seriously imprinted by what’s happening in your immediate family. Mother’s beliefs about money and the, you know, beneficence of the world, father’s beliefs, do they have money? Are they scared? Can they not support each other or, you know, pay their bills? It’s really influencing the womb to six months. And so.
TS: And then this activation of the God spot and this pattern, and how the pattern gets transformed. Take me through it.
CD: Right. So you, okay, so let’s just take a money issue. We know it’s going to be for chakra, just because it always is. So anybody can follow along with this and just trust your instinct as I bring you through a process.
Just breathe deeply into the very middle of your chest, and in bringing your focus, your consciousness into the center of that chakra, you’re going to find yourself in a space that’s always been there, that’s always been comforting, that’s always been a light in which your own essence or spirit in dwells. Continually and knowingly connected to whatever you would call the greater spirit, the oneness, lov,e presence. And from this place in which there is interconnection with the universe, which is devoutly desirous of serving you from this place, just think about any poverty issues, any money issues, any career patterns that are negative for you, and request that your own spirit, with that higher help, move healing energies into the center of your first chakra.
You don’t technically have to know what that is. It’s in the hip area. There’s a form of light that exists in the middle of every chakra that wields exactly the type of healing that we need, and just ask to have that center stirred so your spirit, with greater help, just emanates the light, emanates the truth, emanates the messages through that chakra across time to clear up the programs about money that are unhealthy for you and activate truths that are healthy for you.
And then just breathe back into that center space in your heart and you can just simply ask that if there’s any insight you need, any input that’ll be provided, sort of even in your dream time over the next few days.
TS: Thank you. Thank you for taking us through that.
CD: It can be really simple.
TS: Well, you know, I think when you talk about the chakras for you, you talk about them from a very intimate place where you’ve seen them from a young age and you write about how often they’re described as these lotus flowers opening. And you know, I thought to myself, what, you know, I don’t know if I even have a good visual image from my own experience. And then you describe them as a unified collection of wild tornadoes. And I thought that’s interesting.
CD: Well, because at some, every chakra I know about, let’s just be real about that, right? We could have one in some place in, I don’t know, in, you know, on, on Mars. I don’t know. But the ones that I know about, they are energy fields. It’s important to remember they’re made out of energy fields, like everything, and they’re bandwidth of energy. And so, for instance, the fir chakra, which is based in the coxagial vertebrae, right down in your coccyx. It’s physical, but it also emanates from there psychologically and spiritual, what we call spiritual energies. But it’s always bringing in energy that matches it from other places and other spaces. So that’s why it’s really all about this vortex. You know, we’ve, that energy coming in and it’s stirring the chakra and it’s stirring the coccyx and, you know, energy going out.
So it’s very busy, but the bandwidths are certain frequencies. So one chakra is working with different frequencies at both a subtle and physical level than others. So, you know why they. Let’s call them lotuses. It’s not really all at all about lotuses, it’s if you look at the activity of a chakra and in one minute you take a picture of it, I think I read this in a book by, I can’t remember the name. Might have been John Matthews, maybe not. But it was a really cool little book, and it was all about the science of the chakras and the math. If you were to take a picture of a chakra, you’re just going to see these vortexes of energy coming in and energy going out and energy exchanging.
But in that image, it’s going to look like what the Hindus portray it as. But they’re not really lotuses. Those are, you know, lotus petals. They’re moving fields of energy and some of the really cool new science. Is like James Oshman, who I adore. He’s a great researcher. He talks a lot and others like him about our connection to the universes with through these torsion fields. Guess what? Through these tornadic sort of movements. So everything’s sort of interconnected from a mathematical and a spiritual point of view.
TS: Now, you also describe that the chakras have three types of light, and in the exercise we just did, we were connecting this what I would call primordial light. You didn’t use that word but the primordial light from the God spot with that central light In the lower chakra. But what are the other types of light?
CD: Yes. So the middle of the spine and the middle of every chakra and the Hindus will really very much say the same thing. Just use different words in terms of the spine, the three layers of the spine. Qigong talks about that, too, the very middle is what some scientists are now calling absolute light. It’s a pure spirit light. It’s in the universe, it’s pre big bang. It’s in our cosmic background radiation. It’s a light that casts no darkness. So it is a primordial light. It’s sort of the perfect light.
And when you activate it in the center of a chakra or the center of your spine, like you’re going to get exactly what’s really needed. It’s not going to get, be able to be screwed up or fool with. Right outside of that is a type of light. Some people can, would connect it to the void, like the place of all potential quantum physicists would call it virtual light.
And it’s, it means possibilities is what it is quantum stuff. And the outer wheel of a chakra is where the problems are. That’s why I work from the inside to the out, because the outer wheel is what holds the programs that create the patterns of survival. So we can never shame ourselves if we, let’s say, keep getting the same illness over and over, keep marrying the same type of alcoholic, or can’t get through alcoholism ourselves, or can’t seem to make money that’s held in the outer wheels.
Those programs, somehow, they’re logically, I. Considered to help us survive or fit in a clan to fit in the family system. Sensitive people often act out everybody’s everything. So they’re helping the whole family by instead of mom getting sick, they get sick or whatever it might be. So I always work through the inner wheel of a chakra and let that absolute or primordial energy open.
It stirs the possibilities, which then bridge and start healing the programs that are causing us the problems. It makes it simple. It’s what we just did. Hey, gods spot. Share. Share what’s needed. Share the good energy, activate it through all the chakras. You don’t have to know what chakra your spirit’s going to know what chakra and open it up from the inside to the out.
TS: What shifts the programming from your experience when you see it shift? What has happened?
CD: Well, you know, and I’m, I believe in miracles, which is the C.S. Lewis would say that’s the appearance of what’s supposed to be here, which I think innately means the disappearance of what’s not supposed to be here.
But it’s not as simple as, for most of the time, snapping your finger. Because we’re in a physical body, that’s typically what shows up in the physical or emotional self is in the outer wheel of the program, and we psychologically don’t like change. It’s so uncomfortable to even let go of an issue. So I absolutely believe we have to stir that absolute light because it’ll work through the virtual to at least slowly help us introduce change. And I worked that, you know, with myself. I’ve got tons of stories about that. I’m going to share one story though, that’s interesting.
I led a group of people several years ago to Peru to do some work in Ayahuasca for a couple weeks. And there was a woman who came who was going to have neck surgery when she came home. So she came in a brace and through the two weeks she took off the brace. She literally took off the brace. There were many weird cool things that happened, not just because of the ayahuasca, but because I think there was a field of energy of believing, right? Why don’t we open up who we really are and live that way, which is easiest to do in nature too.
We’re coming home from Peru. We’re getting in the van. She walks into the top of the van, falls over. My co leader, takes her to the hospital. She makes the plane back in the brace. And the idea being I wanna go home and have the surgery so my husband has to take care of me. I. So sometimes we have to look at, are we going to go with the uncomfortability of getting to be in a new comfortable place?
I think, I don’t, I think we have to do emotional stuff too. I had a little over a year ago, I had a negative mammogram in my left breast, and I worked it through pretty easily. It was an old issue with my mom. So when I went back in, it was clear. This last time, maybe a month ago or so, it was a little harder. I had a neg, my left was fine. The left the right had what very much looked like a lump. Now let me tell you, when I went in a year ago on the left breast, there was a lump in the first mammogram that was gone a week later. I mean, the tech was like, what happened? So the right breast was more challenging.
I knew it. And I did a lot of work. I did I basically asked, what is this about? And I heard that it’s mainly about some issues with your youngest son and what, and the wound, the core wound he holds from you. Which is an interesting ancestor piece now, right? That it’s about my child. So we had this, it must have been two hours on a Sunday morning where we, he cried, I cried.
He got to this primal wound from when he was a 2-year-old. I felt I didn’t hate myself. I didn’t feel shame. I felt, now I understand what’s been going on between us the last few years as he’s been doing deep work in therapy and. Then later that day and I felt like I released him, you know, too. And he released me from a place he didn’t even remember that he thought I abandoned him because he had to go to his jazz once a week and he just wanted his mommy. And later that night I heard a voice that said, now you have to change the pattern. Here’s the pattern. And the voice said, okay, we’re going to change the pattern, but I have no idea why it had to go this way. So you go back in and first they give you another mammogram, and then if there’s still something there, they give you an ultrasound.
There’s this whole system. So they said it’ll be half gone on the first mammogram, but it won’t be all the way gone until the ultrasound. Now I don’t know the logic of that. I have no idea. None. It was half gone on the first mammogram, the redo, and then it was all the way gone on the ultrasound might not even have been for me because I told the tech is going to be half gone here and all the way gone on the second round.
It was. Now, does that always happen? Sometimes cancer stays, sometimes something develops as cancer, you know, and we do chemo, we do. I would’ve just cut the lump out. I’ll tell you, I’m not scared of surgery either. You know, if something was there, I would deal with it. I would deal with it allopathic. I was fortunate to get some guidance to deal with it more emotionally and energetically.
But I like to share that story because I think different issues have different springboards through them. And so I think we have to stay with our sense of guidance. And I, you know, what’s the old phrase? Do the work. Sometimes we have to do the work, feel the feelings, make a change, leave the abusive relationship, you know, to get better too.
TS: Well, it’s interesting that you’re sharing these stories related to physical healing because I think when people think about Transforming the Legacy and inherited family patterns, they might think about physical diseases that they’ve inherited or you know, patterns of cardiac failure or whatever it might be. They may think, as you described about poverty or about being killed for speaking out in a previous life or in their family. There’s all kinds of things, but I do believe, Cyndi, that many people feel it’s one of the hardest things to shift. And what you’re describing is that I think, and correct me if I’m wrong, is yes, it’s hard, but you can do it. And I wonder if you can say a few words about that, your confidence that if people sincerely engage; because you’ve given dozens and dozens of exercises to use an energy healing approach to make those shifts, that there will be results.
CD: There will be results. I don’t believe that means every type of cancer will disappear.
TS: Sure.
CD: Maybe it will become more treatable, however, right? Or maybe you’ll draw to yourself the kind of immunotherapy that’s going to do the work. But I sincerely believe in the diligence. I believe, you know, stay with yourself and don’t be scared of your feelings. I, when I was driving with the right breast to get the second mammogram, and I knew there’d be an ultrasound too, I was shaking.
I was a normal human being. I was like, I already even have a sense of the outcome and I trust it, but I’m still scared. I. I this, the fear didn’t stop what was going to happen from happening. I think of fear as just incomplete love. You know, it’s just, you know, I’m scared. I’m going to be gentle with myself. I’m going to care for myself. I’m going to have the due diligence that I need to keep moving through this. And so I’m an eternal optimist that there are going to be shifts if we approach it. And I understand, I was fortunate. I’m fortunate I work in this field, you know, because that, those approaches helped be because I have enough of a, me a toolkit to use them.
And I don’t think everybody needs to have all the tools I have. I think you could take a couple of the tools out of the book and just go for it. Right? Just use the God spot. Go from the inside of a chakra. You know, ask for guidance, ask for a dream. You know, get the in front of somebody who’s got some skill in here. Use an acupuncturist. But definitely try to get into the subtle energy, not only the physical, because physical is based on subtle. I would just add that, do the physical, but go somehow get yourself into the subtle realm. That to me, is really important.
TS: And just as a final question, your code title, your inner code title for your new book, Transforming the Legacy: The Subtle Body Approach to Honor and Heal Your Inherited Lineage is becoming your own good ancestor, your own benevolent ancestor. Tell us what you mean by that.
CD: Well, that’s what I call the book: Become Your Own Best Ancestor, because it’s not just about the history. It’s not just about, oh my gosh, here’s the anchors I’m pulling and oh, sometimes there’s some seaweed on the anchor that is, you know, good for me too. Right?
And it’s not just about parallel and where we are. It’s also important when we get freed up and or transmute enough of yesterday, get empowered by the thought that if we’re living parallel lives, we can help each other. Me, my me can help each other, right? There’s still this dynamic being human like let’s create a better tomorrow for myself, not just for myself.
I have experienced, when I work through an issue, my sons change. I mean, my little grand baby, she’s so much clearer. And she’s got great parents too, right? She’s so much clearer than I know I ever was as a child. I mean, she’s just like this adorable light, you know? And she’s funny and she’s clear and she knows what she doesn’t want.
And at nine months, I think she already thinks she doesn’t need parents sometimes. You know, so it’s also what are we going to leave? What’s our legacy? How are we going to create for ourselves future forward? And it’s not only do we have children or not, it’s not about, if you’ve got somebody who’s sprung from your loins, it’s, you know, your whole family system, nieces, nephews the earth is a family.
We make changes that get shared, that gets shared downline, whether we’re completely related to somebody or not.
TS: Becoming your own best ancestor with Cyndi Dale. Cyndi, thank you so much for the conversation and for your creative work pushing us forward. Thank you.
CD: Thank you.
